Buyer claims high end collectible “damaged†then scams a return
I know there are many of these incidents and each conversation has been closed by either eBay or users. How this case began, a buyer purchased a high end collectible figure worth a lot. They used a guest/throw away account. The reason I proceeded with this was because on another purchase, the same address was used with their correct name and phone number. So I figured they were just signing in from phone to purchase. I take photos of every item prior to shipment, photos of it in the package, and photos of the address/shipping label/tracking. Fast forward after delivery and I wake to a case “Buyer claims item “â€damagedâ€â€ and we will hold the funds to cover this until resolved.â€â€ You’re only option is to message the buyer or provide a refund. Knowing it was not damaged from us (and I know many will say how can you be sure?) we check each item and thoroughly take photos of each. After asking them, asking if it was damage by usps, or other? We got no response. We are not a big store but are growing, and this was a one of a kind still in box. So eBay sends the return label without hearing from the buyer at all, and they wait till the final day to ship it. It shows it’s now coming from “Ohioâ€, though the buyer is in California. Red flag 2. The first day it was due to arrive, tracking states “undeliverableâ€. Our currier said there were no packages for us, and when we showed the tracking eBay provided he said “Yes, this does come up as to you but I have nothing addressed to you.†We go to post office and speak with the post master, they tell us the item is a “padded envelope†sent “first classâ€. They then proceed to tell us the address was to be delivered to a business on the other side of town! Hence why it was undeliverable, that business is only open a couple of days a week. They proceed to tell us they are going to try to retrieve the package, but it is technically addressed to that business so they can’t force it, but that this is 100% a scam. eBay immediately closes case in buyers favor as now it shows “deliveredâ€. We have blocked 0 feedback buyers since, but this still goes beyond that. So eBay opens an appeal, and I only get someone out of our country who got none of the details I provided correct. They also promised I would be given a refund. Two days pass after we have filed a police report and USPS is also investigating the mail fraud. Especially since we were able to find the real buyers information. eBay closed the appeal and denied. I call again with the postal master in front of me, this time I’m speaking to an American. She says “No, I will make sure the appeal is reopened, and I am escalating this for a manual refundâ€. Take away, yes for large sellers you eat the loss. But buyers should not have such a system where they can just put “dmgd†in a claim and keep the item and get a refund! They need to create a better system, one that includes requirement of photos. I know people will comment, “you get into this knowing there will be loss, like any business.†That is null due to the gravity and cost. When I ran a cell phone store in a big city, if someone robbed us, we could easily prosecute. eBay seems to have no protection for the sellers from this scam. The scam has to do with them intercepting and manipulating the tracking. Also using “slap labels†where the barcode gets it to the correct zip code but the address it is to shows a different address. That package is obviously without the item, but it registers on eBay’s system as “delivered.†All of my customers thus far over two years have been extremely happy, and any real issues I happily resolve. I will be prosecuting this person. Another real issue is the fact there are communities angered you have the item, jealous. They openly admit to this scam to get back at the sellers. If eBay does not reimburse the sellers, it legally can become ugly for eBay when this happens to enough sellers in the future. Every day these scammers are learning more ways to screw sellers. Some of these items I worked very hard to acquire, and even lower the price for the buyer. This is becoming overwhelming that even with emails from the post office master that this was indeed 100% a fraud, it took calling back the 12th time with the USPS post master present explaining that it was indeed a scam! Zane it is still not a guaranteed refund, and it has to come out of eBays pockets. What is the best way to deal with these situations when you already keep such clean records as we do? We keep photographs of the items every step of the way, even until shipped! We keep our shipping receipts and tracking! Apparently these losers can just use your return label and still have it sent to another address!
bonsu-77
·2 years agoIt was bad enough I lost my expensive item that I too paid good money for but Ebay charged me $160.00 in selling fees knowing I made nothing and lost my merchandise! If you don't dispute the claim and just give away your merchandise they won't charge you a selling fee. If you dispute the buyers false claim and show proof with photos and the gemstone certification they bankrupt you in selling fees.
vintagecraze50
·2 years agoYou have all the evidence from the postmaster if they have retrieved and know 100 percent sure that that package YOU sent with EBay’s info of YOUR return address, which if it is not YOUR return address, you can file mail fraud charges with the USPS. I WOULD DO THIS in a blink of an eye.
vintagecraze50
·2 years agoVictim of Fake tracking scam. This seems to be a trend for these scammers slapping the wrong address usually a business address in your zip code then they ship nothing in the package or a cheap trinket back. Since Ebay first looks at the tracking showing delivered back they assume it went back to you, but of course it did not. I am furious when I hear these stories on here and you do whatever it takes to get this case appealed with the evidence you have from the USPS. MY HOPE is that all these scammers using this method will be in prison with mail fraud charges which are quite severe.
kitchen-topia
·3 years agoI feel for you and I hope this is resolved.
HOWEVER, I could only read half of your post - paragraphs are important.
sl1mthechosen1
·3 years ago@jurassic_attic I thought this was a fairly new return scam until I stumbled upon your post.
So, this has been going on now for a little while. New buyers buying something with a particular named funding provider and sending the actual item to another name. Okay 1st flag for me which I did not catch until I realized I had a return that was supposedly delivered to me which it never was. 2nd flag as you also mentioned the actual product was delivered to one address and supposedly returned from another address. Also, did not realize until I tracked the return that was supposedly delivered to me. Ebay did nothing said I needed to refund buyer within 3 days. After the second phone call I was still told to report the buyer which I did and the fact that I could not actually find the correct option to report the buyer for made me just report them for "items missing from return" which I really just wanted to find the tab to report them for failure to provide the return back to the original address the automatic return label stated.
After reporting I escalated prior to ebay stepping in and just simply refunding buyer. I stated in claim I never received the item back. Tracking shows delivered yesterday which it was not delivered and my carrier even stated he was at home during that time frame the return indicated it was delivered.
Fast forward: Ebay definitely stepped in within minutes of claim and sided with buyer. Stating I should make sure my return address is correct. Which to me upset me more than it should have probably. The return shows delivered. The fact that it was processed to be shipped back from many states away was never even considered. The two names attached to the original order again never even mentioned.
I appealed the refund: gave evidence of my package pickup time frame along with the actual return tracking scans and departures originating many states away from where I actually delivered the item. Appeal denied offline rep stated we see the package shows returned tracking and its unfortunate you never actually received the item. Contact your local carrier for the whereabouts of said return or possibly your neighbors received it instead. At this point I was very upset and after many offline replies did get shipping refunded, no case on account and fees credited but that was not even easily given.
Still the main issue is: I was scammed and buyer/s got away with it. If I could get taken other sellers could fall victim to such scam as well. Ebay just blames the carrier and states I should have insured parcel therefore I could get the retrieval funds from the carrier. Really...$6 profit after insurance $1-2 just donate it instead! No countability that these return scams are present.
Since, I've now had 2 total atleast the 2nd did not get marked delivered it was marked undeliverable "invalid address numbers" return to sender. No idea what that is all about just glad it to was not marked delivered. A third just came in today. Waiting to see where this person supposedly decides to ship it from.
I now have informed Ebay of such and they did tell me they are looking into it. Hopefully much more broader and actually investigating everything I gave them rather than just using auto prompter bot responses; fingers crossed. I hate this to be what ebay has become and for me to take my trading elsewhere.
jurassic_attic
OP3 years agoI’m so sorry it happened to you. By contacting USPS and USPS confirming the package was a padded envelope (not fitting what I sold) and that it was addressed to a business in the area, eBay ended up siding with me. Be sure to contact eBay business on facebook!
There should be a lot more protection for sellers, I take photos of every item I ship. Not that it helps beyond having more evidence when fighting a case. It is beyond me, because they know of the scam. For other sellers it’s the risk of doing business, if you’re not a major reseller, it can cost you thousands. Luckily they are actually looking into mail fraud for the buyer. Again, as another user told me elsewhere, be sure to contact eBay for business via Facebook. You won’t get a drone…
bonsu-77
·2 years agoYou know what? Thank you for that info. I have just racked my brains out trying to understand how others earn a profit using their platform with them rewarding criminals and charging the seller $160.00 if they don't just quietly accept the $350.00 loss. If you dispute the case you are penalized with a selling fee and any promotional fees. In my case $160.00 in fees for a total of $510.00 (chipped tourmaline) plus the 2 labels, 2 shipping fees, insurance, hand delivery, packaging, gift box, bubble wrap, tape, printer etc and several hours of my life. (for the only sale in 6 months) Maybe you can only succeed selling items under $5.00?
vintagecraze50
·2 years agoVery very good!!!!!!!!
bonsu-77
·3 years agoI've been there. I sold a beautiful $600.00 certified gemstone and it was returned with a significant chip in it and Ebay not only refunded them but charged me a $160.00 selling fee because I disputed the claim. I'm out $760.00 plus 2 shipping fees, packaging etc. and the chipped gemstone is worthless. They returned it because they changed their mind. When confronted about the chip? It was chipped when it arrived even though the photos proved otherwise and the packaging wasn't damaged. It was in a glass case and the case was fine so it wasn't damaged in the mail. That was my experience selling on Ebay. I deleted my listings and haven't tried selling since. They can return an empty box and get refunded by Ebay because tracking shows a package delivered.
monster-deals
·3 years agoI have a feeling...that won't do anything ever.
I wonder how many people that claim they video themselves packing actually do.
joliztoyco
·3 years agoYou now know that you have no protection from scams by Ebay.
You also know that you cannot warn other sellers about the scam buyer using the useless "feedback" system.
Because, despite being the victim of fraud, YOU'RE the one that could get your account suspended for your "negative feedback wrapped in a positive".
You also have learned that this forum is not the place to come for sympathy. Notice how quickly your post was attacked by the reading impaired? Notice how quickly it became about the feedback you left.
Try exploring other selling sites. There are more out there, and if you are near a city, you can use a "certain selling platform" and can easily meet the buyers in a public place to make your transactions. They are working out well for us, although we sell a narrow band of merchandise.
We're sorry Ebay allowed you to be scammed. We know the feeling.
And always remember" If you can't afford to be scammed out of your merchandise, don't sell it on Ebay".
Gee...I sure hope this was comprehendible to the paragraphically challenged....
jurassic_attic
OP3 years agoLol, it’s all settled.
bonjourami
·3 years agoJust fyi, there is no way to block zero feedback buyers, Ebay has never allowed new buyers to be blocked, that would be counterintuitive.
jurassic_attic
OP3 years agoI realized that after I was instructed on how to do it… They do allow a certain amount through… Well, that person now has one feedback, with the fraud statement attached.
dryophelia
·3 years ago@jurassic_attic
Leaving negative comments in a positive feedback rating for a buyer is not allowed. If reported, the comments will be removed and you will be dinged for breaking the rules.
It is not possible to block bidders with no feedback from buying their first item from you. It is possible to block them from purchasing more than one item at a time, but again, it is not possible to block users with zero feedback from a single purchase.
Sellers are responsible for the item while it is in transit. Therefore, videos of it being packaged mean nothing.
If it falls off the back of the postal truck and gets run over by a snow plow, you will be required to refund in full.
It is then up to you, the seller, to get compensation from the carrier.
jurassic_attic
OP3 years agoIf it was a true damaged item obviously I would go after the carrier. The item was returned with what USPS called a “slap label†to insure it went to a different address, and it was an empty padded envelope they sent. Thank you for the help, but this was a scam.
Any situations with a buyer who is not happy, I gladly accommodate. Scammers are scammers, and I have zero tolerance.
jurassic_attic
OP3 years agoWonder why eBay customer service says it is possible to block zero feedback and direct you to it. As I said in a reply to another user, I did discover another buyer was able to purchase from me with no feedback. I have had the call centers tell us some ridiculous information just to get us off the phone, so I apologize for my ignorance.
bonjourami
·3 years agoYou should realize too, that only you,as the seller, can see the id of the negative comment you left your 'buyer'. As others have said, thats not allowed, and if the 'buyer' reports it you will get sanctioned, and a possible suspension on your sellers account. Could be three days, a week, ten days, etc..it varies. Only you know if it was worth it.
vintagecraze50
·2 years agoYa know, how bout EBAY see’s it and BANS THEM (THE SCAMMER) FOR AN ETERNITY
bonsu-77
·2 years agoThey're profiting from these scams so why fix it? I wouldn't be surprised it they ARE the buyers rerouting sellers goods to a warehouse, returning empty boxes or switching items with damaged ones and processing their own refunds, charging selling fees from sellers who dispute claims against them. Most sellers won't file a lawsuit they take the loss and move on if they are otherwise doing ok. Those that sue them are settled out of court. They'd still make many millions reselling the warehoused items to where even an occasional class action suit wouldn't hurt them. They donate a % to charities, give China the lion's share of business selling everything 10% cheaper, hire India's computer techs & customer service agents, use a UK facility to silence Europe while they rip off the US.
mtgraves7984
·3 years agoWell, that person now has one feedback, with the fraud statement attached.
@jurassic_attic
Uh, oh. 😟
jurassic_attic
OP3 years agoHey well this was at the direction of another outsourced agent who didn’t know what they were talking about and instructed me to leave feedback on their account about the fraudulent activity.
12345jamesstamps
·3 years agoWhen I sell something expensive...I have done in the past...gold and such. I always check feedback of the buyer. I also went from "no returns" to "returns" even though I don't want to. I want to make sure the buyer sends something back. Never had a problem after doing "returns" accepted because it needs tracking...key word "tracking" from the buyer..."returns where buyer pays return"...although I can also get stuck paying for a return...yes I know eBayers.
Yours could be a credit card chargeback where eBay cannot do anything about the situation. Wouldn't matter what address it is with a charge bank credit card. And doing all that footwork is useless with a credit card chargeback.
bonjourami
·3 years agoDoesnt sound like a cc chargeback since Ebay provided a return label to the buyer. Typically, with a cc chargeback, the buyer is not required to return the item.
jurassic_attic
OP3 years agoCorrect. They only wrote damaged. Then they sent a padded envelope that was empty to another address. USPS was able to intercept the package since, and there was what they called a “slap label.â€
As for the feedback, I was misinformed by two agents and I believe it is for auction only what I was directed to.
jurassic_attic
OP3 years agoI’m not going to let it eat me alive. I learned from it and am taking the proper precautions now, as you mentioned. I have since blocked zero feedback and also will not send expensive items overseas. The post office has the package, the police photographed it for the report. The buyer sent an empty envelope to another address.
Each step has been a learning experience for me. I appreciate you sharing your experiences and tips!
soh.maryl
·3 years agoRespectfully, how could checking a buyer's feedback be useful in a situation like this?
Buyers can only be given positive feedback, right?
Or did you mean that you check the feedback the buyer has left for sellers?
jameshen1
·3 years agoParagraphs and spacing are your friend. I can't read that wall of text.
jurassic_attic
OP3 years agoI know it.
I was in a fury writing that.
bonjourami
·3 years agoSorry you were scammed, but Im not sure why you think taking pictures of the item while packaging would save you from a damaged in transit, snad complaint. Ebay wouldnt even look at those photos to prove what was shipped, or even what was received, as they can be doctored.
I wouldnt put much stock in what the outsourced, drone, csr told you..they only tell you what you want to hear to get on to the next call. You are better off speaking to one of the actual Ebay, American, employees, on Ebay for Business on Facebook.Use the message link..Good luck.
https://www.facebook.com/eBayForBusiness/
jurassic_attic
OP3 years agoI appreciate that as we have begun recording for our own sanity. Many times we have been told one thing by one outsource, and another by someone else. Then, the next day they will say both lied. It is frustrating and I appreciate your help. Photographing my items is just a precaution my wife and I take. We like to have evidence of each higher end item being taken care of each step of the way.
As for helpful it has been, really just for our own peace of mind.
The evidence here that came into play was the empty envelope sent to a business on the other side of town. It serves as evidence. Sad nonsense people will pull to save a buck.
monster-deals
·2 years agoHate to break it to you but that isn't going to do that.
No one is ever going to look at your pictures, EVER and many pro forum posters got a good chuckle out of yet another person saying they record themselves packing items.
bonsu-77
·2 years agoThat was just my point though. It arrived in a glass top gem case. The gem could not have been broken during transit because the gemstone was encased in a glass top case. The glass case was not broken.