Black Mask in the mail
The past few weeks I have been receiving small envelopes with a single black paper mask inside. Buyers are sending these as "returns" to orders, obviously not at all the correct item. I had a buyer purchase a valve cover, opens a return on the item and sent a paper mask back with the return label.
Anyone else experiencing this?
39 comments
slyders_finds
·2 years agoReport to ic3.gov
obdcanex_llc
·2 years agoEveryone that's getting impacted by this fraud scheme should contact their local police departments and get a case started... Once that is complete, file a report with iC3... I've been building a case with our local precinct and keep adding to it each time we have to deal with these fraud returns. At least with my local PD, they're taking it seriously and have an officer dedicated to all this working with us. Frustrating that these scum are doing this to us all and think they can get away with it! We have two charge backs that just opened up after we closed out three of their accounts on ebay and were able to stop any refunds in their tracks... The third item we caught while in transit as being one of these fraud concerns and had the package turned around just in time...
bowerstool
·2 years agoYep, just got another mask today. I've gotten stickers, plastic rings, completely empty and many other things. It's a foreign fraud organization. They list an item for sale on eBay. Item sells, then they buy from a legitimate seller and have them ship to this real buyer, the one one you ship to. Soon after opening a return sending back the bogus item, you will notice tracking never comes from where you shipped it to. Use that to fight the case with eBay. The key is shutting down the scammer's main selling accounts. How? Send a physical letter to the return address on the received package (same as who you shipped to). They will be wholly unaware they were used in the scam and will often happily call to give you the user ID they purchased from. Then present that to ebay and a scam account with 1000s of reviews with be finished. Even better... if you see the item you are selling being sold at below cost or an item only you sell consider buying it. Good chance another ebay account buys from you and has you ship to yourself. Boom! Caught Red Handed. I call this the dropship return loop scam. They collect money from a real buyer plus the seller after false return.
camelliacityrodandcustom
·2 years agoThis happened to me back in January with 4 of the same items in close succession, and is currently happening as we speak with 2 of the same items. If you'd like to know how I successfully kept my money in the first instance I've detailed it below. I will also share how I can now see the scam coming and nip it in the bud. Forewarning, I am not a writer, so if spelling and grammar are your game "ye be warnnned."
Background: In January's instance, 4 items were all going to separate buyers and addresses. 1 "buyer" opened a payment dispute, that went away quickly. 1 "buyer" tried to start a "item not as described" case but didn't follow through. 2 "buyers" claimed "damage/not as described" initiating returns.
Current: I have 2 scam purchases, one I did not catch in time so it's regretfully shipped, we will see what happens there. It seems I'm a perfect target for these scammers as I offer free returns and fast shipping. I ship the same or next business day so I wasn't slowing down to look at certain details/signs. Frankly, until these instances I haven't had any scam issues in the 7 years I've been selling. I did catch the second one and contacted eBay. I was told (on record) that because of the facts I provided (see below) I can simply cancel the sale using "issue with buyers address". Doing this will not cause an account defect and any derogatory feedback the scammers tried to leave would be nullified.
Spystreet above is correct on how the scammers are operating. I did not get that part the first time around but this time thanks to another user I was able to catch it.
Armed with this info now, the first course of action when I see someone with less than 10 feedback is to look on the order details page. When they have been scam purchases the name on the account (right side of the page above eBay user ID) has always been a different name than the name on the shipping address (left side of the page). It used to be you would get some sort of warning of addresses or names being different (nu-registered) but I guess that has gone away. Maybe the scammers have found a way around this now, at any rate there was no warning at time of shipping these items. In addition you can look up the item you just sold in the eBay sold listings and see if "another" one just sold; the scammers are currently even using my photos.
I'm not here to repeat what everyone else has said but rather how I handled it the first time around. I was able to contact eBay and get the holds released in my favor. Yes, they still hold your money for a bit but sadly that is part of doing business. I've owned a B&M and this is nothing compared to what CC companies and charge backs will do to you with no recourse.
IMPORTANT: Even though your money is held you have 2 business days to click the refund button once the return arrives. This gives you time to act BEFORE you are required to refund. If you wait and let the automated system decide your fate you'll never have something like this decided in your favor. So then if you CHOOSE to wait and let this happen that is when you would have to APPEAL that decision, I've never heard of that going well. At that point you have not followed through with facts in a timely manner per the request and eBay guidelines. So now you are working from behind. These scammers do it this way on purpose hoping you throw your hands up, don't do that.
One more time because I feel some either get it wrong or are using the wrong terms, you will only need to appeal IF you do not get your facts in time to get your funds released. So back to the point...
What I did when I received the return/claim notices: I responded to the "return/or item not as described" case immediately. Just a friendly, "sorry you didn't like the item....we accept returns...no problem." Don't worry they never respond. They had claimed damage and sent poorly photo-shopped images, so I asked them to send me clearer pictures, better explanation of issue, etc....again, they never respond. Next step, I immediately reported them through the "abusing returns" link with supporting facts. Then immediately after that, a phone call to an eBay agent. You will have to first go through the automated assistant. Just keep answering the automated questions but also just keep saying agent until they offer to call you. Once on the phone I then asked them questions on how to handle the return once it arrives as I suspected it would be empty/not the sold item. The agent may help you, they may transfer you to someone else, but stay on until someone tells you what to do. It will be in a transcript for reference once your call is over. Most likely, the agent is are going to tell you they can't do anything until there is a return, understandable. However, now you are on eBay record everywhere and this will make it much smoother once the bogus package arrives. FYI, these steps took me maybe 30-45 min total.
Once the bogus return arrived, I simply photographed the package still closed and then did a recording of me opening it. I then typed in the tracking number of the return labels to see where they were sent from... you guessed it, Queens, New York, even though the "buyer" addresses where in 2 different states and were returns from 2 different buyers. Both returns sent from Queens scanned in within 2 minutes of each other. eBay will not dismiss those type of facts and these are what you need to provide.
Yes, they were poly envelopes with black masks sent from NY, and yes this has already been covered however, now take a photo or screen shot of this tracking information and then immediately report the buyer under "abusing returns" again. There is actually an option for "buyer returned an empty box". Then (you guessed it) immediately get back on the phone with eBay. I had to transfer once to get the right agent but it was handled on that one call. The agent's only request was that I send the photos I had through the send buyer a message link so they could review them and this time they even released the funds before I sent the photos.
Now a couple of tips aside from the above.
First, when this starts and you suspect a scam or fraud just step away from your device. Maybe walk outside, take a few deep breaths before you start. This really is not about you personally or your service. Try not to let it ruin your day as you still have things to list/sell today. If someone breaks the window of your car to steal the change out of your ashtray you don't then drive the car off a cliff do you? Now grab something to drink, maybe a snack, and something to write on and with. Then return to your device of choice setting yourself up somewhere you are comfortable and can be without interruptions. Once you are ready then get all of your facts together. User IDs, tracking numbers, order numbers, photos, etc. I like to open several tabs so I can just click through as eBay asks you for the information. Now you are ready to provide all the facts you have gather so that you can be covered under the seller protections you have coming. Again, yes there are holds and processes to follow but don't let anger talk you into throwing your hands up. Unless you give your protections away with inaction they are yours for a purpose, this is that purpose. eBay is not the enemy here the scammers are. They can only work with the information you give them. This leads me to another tip...
Don't get off the phone or stop calling eBay until you get decent answers. I am not saying you are going to like the answers but get them. The answer should be something like "do this..." not "all we can do is wait." If what they tell you to do is what you have already done, great. Now you have additional documentation that they have told you to do something and you have done it. It is all documented, I've gotten transcripts emailed to me after every call. On that note, always be polite. Be firm in your right to answers but always polite. If the agent can't provide you with reasonable answers ask to be transferred to someone who can. They may walk you through where to report something on the site and that is helpful too. If you can't get answers and you feel the agent won't transfer you just say thank you and goodbye, call back and get someone else. Not every agent is an expert at what you are calling about even though some might think they are. Remember, you are calling to get the information about the bogus return on the record or get the hold released, not to let them know how disgruntled you are, there is another time and place for that.
Hope this helps somebody keep their money and/or steer clear of future scam activity.
csspecs
·2 years agoHey looks like they did it to you again today... I might have been the guy that contacted you.
I really really hate scammers.
spystreet
·2 years agoCOVID MASK FRAUD RETURN
THE FRAUD WORKS AS FOLLOWS:
1)Same Seller (located in China) using two different user IDs (huzai56 & aointsk_13) copies your listing.
2)Fraud Seller then lists this item as his own at a lower price.
3)Fraud Seller sells item through the copied listings (see links shown below -- sold/completed listings for huzai56 & aointsk_13).
4)Fraud Seller then orders item (using newly created user ID) from legitimate Seller with shipping to Buyer he sold to.
5)Fraud Seller then request return from legitimate Seller.
6)Fraud Seller returns Covid Mask to obtain refund.
7)The allows Fraud Seller to keep proceeds from fraudulent sale and allows the Buyer he secured through the copied listing to keep the item.
8)Fraud Seller has done this to 100s of legitimate Sellers (see links shown below -- sold/completed listings for huzai56 & aointsk_13).
***USER ID aointsk_13 = https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trkparms=folent%3Aaointsk_13%7Cfolenttp%3A1&_trksid=p3542580.m47492.l71970&_ssn=aointsk_13
***USER ID huzai56 = https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trkparms=folent%3Ahuzai56%7Cfolenttp%3A1&_trksid=p3542580.m47492.l71970&_ssn=huzai56
kimparadee_kim
·2 years agoI just received a small plastic envelope with nothing but a black face mask inside. It was sent from Ontario Canada. I haven't requested a returned for anything though.
spygal999
·2 years agoWe've now had 2 sales in the last two weeks where a buyer wanted to return the item, and sent a small envelope with a face mask inside instead of the equipment. It's infuriating. Both buyers had no feedback (new users). One was in Texas, and one in New York. What's with this?!?
alphaautomotive
OP2 years agoLook at the return tracking on the USPS labels. So far all instances I know of have come out of Queens NY, even though that's not where your buyer was.
I am working directly with my eBay rep on this issue.
merkurdepot
·2 years agoBlack masks look like they have come to a rest for now, but scams have been evolving .
Anyone else experience the black masks stop - but were instantly replaced with a new wave of nearly identical items /sales getting "buyer payment disputes" ?
75% of these payment disputes resolve quickly, but the other 25% fall at the mercy of ebays AI and suck the money out of your account for a fraudulent refund. Then file an appeal, etc. and hope the AI is in a good mood when you do so.
I'll probably need to start a new dedicated thread for this...
There's a third more elaborate scam just starting to be used that knows how to fool the USPS system (ebay generated return labels). Once USPS AI and ebay AI agree with each other they have basically "verified" all the information they deem relevant to your case.
Decision = REFUND TO THE BUYER.
You can appeal the decision all you want and it will get instantly denied.
Why? Two automated systems are in complete agreement with eachother and there are no letters on your keyboard you can type that will change that.
The black masks you could appeal, you could sign the affidavit, etc.
This new scam shuts your options down earlier in the process to where you never even get the option to sign the affidavit and send it it. I'll elaborate more on this later.
generic_store_name
·2 years agoI think there's a relatively simple solution to this.
1. Have your returns held at your post office. You can do this on the USPS website.
2. Pick them up and open them in front of a USPS employee, on video, if possible. Explain what's going on to the postal worker before you record anything though, because even though it's a 1st amendment protected activity and allowed in USPS Poster 7, most postal workers aren't familiar with it and get iffy at the thought of being recorded.
3. Ask the postal worker to file a report with the postal inspector.
4. Get documentation of what occurred in paper form, from both your post office and the postal inspector. Even if you can't get a copy of the final report in time to meet Ebay's ridiculous deadline for such things, at least get a copy of the report you filed.
5. Give that to Ebay. I'd personally recommend chatting with an agent and/or emailing them vs the phone.
blackberry_hills
·2 years agoWe've had it happen to us 3 times now, once months ago, twice recently. Oddly, eBay system will likely initially side with the buyer. I was told by an eBay agent, that is not actually a real person siding with the buyer, but rather the system (AI). I appealed that decision the first time this happened, and got good results from eBay. I now have two more cases escalated (after they were first sided in the buyer's favor) waiting to hear from eBay. I'll keep you posted.
EBay seems to take fraud very seriously, and has always taken the right action in the end with us. They know it not only hurts us, but eBay as well, to allow these people to get away with their fraud.
Just be sure to appeal any decision made in the buyer's favor with this issue. This is fraud and it must be stopped. But it won't if decisions are left in favor of the buyer. If these fraudsters make money, they will keep doing it.
mistkistcranberry
·2 years agoSounds like eBay will have to come up with a solution because if this starts happening to multiple sellers and there is a class action lawsuit, then it will be problematic.
Maybe eBay will have to start to accept video of opening the returned item as proof.
blackberry_hills
·2 years agoHad it happen to us 3 times now, once months ago, twice recently. Oddly, eBay system will likely initially side with the buyer. I was told by an eBay agent, that is not actually a real person siding with the buyer, but rather the system (AI). I appealed that decision the first time this happened, and got good results from eBay. I now have two more cases escalated (after they were first sided in the buyer's favor) waiting to hear from eBay. I'll keep you posted.
EBay seems to take fraud very seriously, and has always taken the right action in the end with us. They know it not only hurts us, but eBay as well, to allow these people to get away with their fraud.
Just be sure to appeal any decision made in the buyer's favor with this issue. This is fraud and it must be stopped. But it won't if decisions are left in favor of the buyer. If these fraudsters make money, they will keep doing it.
buyservertech
·2 years agoupdate for me never seen this before but
in 1 week alone 3 returns
different people ? got a black face mask with my return label
sent appeals and spend hours to get a real person on the phone but
"when we let your buyer return the item to you, we also want to make sure that you will receive it in its original condition. Otherwise, we will consider this as a Fraudulent Return, and this is against our policy. However, as we don’t handle items directly, we’re unable to make that determination."
I sent pics and videos nothing so im out of money , product and time
obdcanex_llc
·2 years agoWe need to find a way to band together and take this to the next level. Face Mask guy won’t stop until there are major consequences. He’s wracking up large financial losses at this point on all of us…. Not to mention wasted time. I’m also looking into copyright and trademark violations and filing complaints. He’s using privileged marketing material.
https://www.justice.gov/criminal/criminal-fraud/report-fraud
oldschool718
·2 years agoYou can go to seller preferences in your account , go to manage who can buy from you, there is an option to block new accounts who have 0 feed back you can set the requirements as to the minimum amount of feed back a buyer has before making a purchase from you.
autocarpets1
·2 years agoYes! I have had three returns, all of which I had to pay return shipping so a label was sent to them. All three were wiper arms and blades. Once I received all three and opened a case, they sent the same three to me again (which I thought was a little strange). One ebay refunded, one they did not and the other is still under investigation. The one that ebay did not refund and sided with me had the balls to open a payment dispute with his bank. That was a blessing in disguise. Boy did I send everything I could. Hopefully his bank will see the fraudulent activity and prosecute. I also took all six poly mailers to my USPS office and they sent them to the Postal Inspector. They were all three the same poly mailers, the same blurry thermal printer (that by the way cannot be scanned according to the USPS office) and the mask were all folded the exact same way (offset).
Hopefully they were catch them and do something about this.
mikes.stocks
·2 years agoI am up to three of these replacement/ returns for items that are in 24x6x6 inch boxes and weigh 4 lbs. They attached a picture that wasn't even my product when they requested a return and I notified ebay at that time. They said to wait until the item arrived to contest it. Easy to say when it is our money and not theirs that is on hold. We also have to pay for return shipping which is 10 to 15 dollars on most of my items. Ebay needs to screen new buyers better just like they do us as sellers. This gets old reporting scammers and taking pics and hoping that somehow we will be protected by buyer protection.
mikes.stocks
·2 years agoI didn't say that very well earlier. I received 3 black facemasks instead of the large 24 inch boxes containing the actual items I sell. SImply another rip off because they file a claim on their credit card if ebay doesn't charge us as sellers
obdcanex_llc
·2 years agoWe have been hit by this same individual too!!!! Multiple times! Always a black face mask... And, he always buys the same product as well... Our first round was in November, more recently, in January.
midwesttoolco
·2 years agoHello,
We recently had two transactions of this type come through. We discovered the who, what, and how.
The seller account that hurt us (and many others) no longer offers products… They took all of their products down this weekend after we discovered and notified about 50 sellers who we were pretty sure had been hit by this scam in the second week of January.
A massive percent of the sellers we identified as potentially taking losses on this scam actually responded and let us know we were correct.
Since then, we have let those sellers know how they were hit and shared an option to avoid this particular operation… same as we share here.
HOW IT IS DONE
E-Bay Seller YUQ5219 was copying products (pictures and info) from other sellers on E-Bay and posting them on his account. YUQ5219 then posts the products at reduced price. When he received an order he opened a secondary (fake) buyers account and then drop shiped the order through our company and scheduled delivery to the name and address of the person who bought our product through YUQ5219 seller account.
Here are some example queries we used to start discovering which sellers were being targeted by him.
This is the product he hit us on:
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2334524.m570.l1313&_nkw=NEW+CRAFTSMAN+C3+19.2+Volt+Brad+Nailer%2C+18+Gauge+%28Tool+Only%29+315.FS2000%2F42980&_sacat=0&_in_kw=3&_odkw=Rosineer+PRESSO+Personal+Heat+Press%2C+1500%2B+lbs%2C+Dual-Heat+Plates%2C+Gold+Yellow&_osacat=0&LH_Complete=1&LH_Sold=1
These are some products that other sellers have been hit on.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=1016380R+Nordyne+Frigidaire+OEM+Blower+Control+Board&_in_kw=3&_sacat=0&LH_Complete=1&LH_Sold=1
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=Black+Widow+Universal+Deluxe+Steel+Mesh+ATV+Front+Rack+Basket&_in_kw=3&_sacat=0&LH_Complete=1&LH_Sold=1
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=Rosineer+PRESSO+Personal+Heat+Press%2C+1500%2B+lbs%2C+Dual-Heat+Plates%2C+Gold+Yellow&_in_kw=3&_sacat=0&LH_Complete=1&LH_Sold=1
(We simply took the exact item name and built an advanced search to show which buyers had sold the exact item name… once we figured this out all of the pieces fell into place.)
After the product arrived and was received by the real customer, YUQ5219 (pretending to be the product recipient on the aliased account) filed a return with E-Bay claiming the product needs to be returned per policy.
The return process was started and YUQ5219 (on the alias buyer account) received the return shipping label (through his aliased buyers account), attached it to an envelope, and put it in the post so the package showed as being returned. In this case YUQ5219 (on the alias buyer account) sent us a used face Mask.
HOW TO AVOID BEING SCAMMED BY THE SAME OR SIMILAR OPERATION
Based on our research we discovered that YUG5219 will usually only make one purchase through each “straw†buyer account he creates.
What we have done to ensure we are not ever going to deal with this or similar scams is simply limit who can purchase by adjusting our buyer requirements requiring that anybody who purchased from us has made at least 2 prior purchases on the Ebay System.
Yes, we may lose a few orders from first time buyers but will not have to deal with this particular scam again.
Here is how to do it:
Go to Settings → Selling Preferences → and “edit†Managing Who Can Buy From You
Scroll down to “Buyer Requirements†and click box, “Only set this requirement to block buyers with a feedback score of†“2†(or whatever number you like,)
NOTE: When you click this check box the box above it (Block buyers who are currently winning or have bought) will automatically check itself as well. You need to adjust this drop down and make sure that the number there is high. We are currently set at “only block if they have ordered (100) times in the last 10 daysâ€. If you do not confirm the number is good for you it may limit the volume of purchases by one or more of your high volume buyers.
kako_5344
·2 years agoParade, rain. It's a one and done buyer. Even gets away when eBay shuts down their MBG.
And you can't block zero-feedback buyers, nor any below some arbitrary feedback rating. Sorry, but that won't work.
luckeyluckeycat
·2 years agoWe sold an rv gas detector. They opened a return & sent a black facemask. Shipped item to Texas, mask came queens.
powernail
·2 years agoWe have experienced three instances of this scam in the last couple months. All on the same product as well. It’s definitely real and definitely a problem I hope Ebay will eventually catch on to.
I've noticed the following in every instance:
From here, we are forced to appeal. After a lot of back and forth, explaining our case, providing images, etc, it’s unfortunately hit or miss to win.
merkurdepot
·2 years agoI have a nearly identical scenario as bnrparts just described.
Back in the day you had to be a 'registered user' on ebay to buy / sell. Now you only have to be registered to sell. Its wide open for random buyers now and the fraud has increased exponentially.
bnrparts
·2 years agoJust received my third return with the same black mask. I checked all the tracking numbers, all came from Queens NY, although the original order was from a different state. Two of the users are no longer registered users. All three are the same part number as well.
anneecakes
·2 years agoThere's another seller on here who believes he's figured this out. He says we sellers to whom it happens are being used as drop shippers. Our listing has been copied and is being used word for word but priced way lower than we sell it. The items are advertised as being shipped from China. I'll try to link to the other seller's explanation of the whole thing if you're interested.
alphaautomotive
OP2 years agohttps://www.reddit.com/r/eBaySellers/comments/17yw1t7/new_scam_anyone_else_getting_black_facemasks/
janet9988
·2 years agoYou never know what germs or chemicals are on those black masks.
I would be reporting those.
https://about.usps.com/publications/pub300a/pub300a_v04_revision_072019_tech_024.htm
rileydone
·2 years agoIf you Google "scam black mask return", there are several instances of this happening over the last couple of years. Interesting!
12345jamesstamps
·2 years agoOne unsatisfied buyer does have friends around the country. Someone is not happy about something and has gone out of their way to do this. An unsatisfactory buyer can mail item to friend to mail to you. Just a thought.
simba6
·2 years agoThere has been quite an uptick in return fraud where buyers return junk in place of the item. This however is the first time black masks were reported. The Lone Ranger scam?
Just an online form a five finger discount all retail sellers have to endure. Add a small amount to all your prices to cover it.
alphaautomotive
OP2 years agoThe first 2 were from the West coast, this most recent one is from New Jersey. If it is the same person they are good at covering their tracks.
And yes, I have seen a definite increase in fraudulent returns. Unfortunately eBay can't seam to quite understand how some buyers know how to play the system to get free parts.
simba6
·2 years agoYou would not think three different buyers would all have the same black masks for scam returns. And, that is a strange item to return anyway. You should report such buyers. eBay does keep track and will remove buyers from the money back program that abuse it like that. However, not before that have scammed many sellers.
stainlessenginecovers
·2 years agoSo it's YOUR Valve Cover that the 'buyer' was returning the item (do you have open 'returns'?)
If so, this (although NOT typical to Steel a Valve Cover) is just another way to 'scam' the system and you. They open a return, shipping shows it was delivered and you have to refund them (again, only if you have a return case opened by said buyer)
Unavailable member
·2 years agoThat’s odd that you’re receiving black masks over the past few weeks. Sounds to me like the same person, I can’t imagine more than one buyer doing that unless they are related in some way.
In answer to your question, no, I’m not experiencing that.
alphaautomotive
OP2 years agoEven more odd, all cases are the same valve cover. As well as each buyer only has 1 feedback, and it's from our auto generated feedback.
trains_a_53
·2 years agobuyer did ship my stuff back and ebay gave him a full refund