Major Changes To Promoted Listings Ad Attribution In Germany
Just a heads up - major changes announced for PL Basic/General ad attribution in Germany.
Basically, the update gets rid of distinctions between Direct and Halo attribution, and instead will assess ad fees for any sale where any buyer clicked on the ad - even if that isn't the buyer who ultimately ends up making the purchase!
https://pages.ebay.com/sell/pl/attribution.html
From February 26, 2025, the following will apply to items listed on eBay.de: eBay will record an attributable sale from a base campaign when a buyer purchases the same item advertised in the ad clicked by any buyer in the last 30 days.
The ad fee is charged when a buyer purchases the item advertised in a basic ad that was clicked by any buyer in the last 30 days. The item must be advertised with an ad both at the time of the click and at the time of the sale. The ad fee is based on the ad rate in effect at the time of the sale.
Interestingly, the update also changes the time frame in which an ad fee might apply.
Previously, if you ended an ad campaign, you could still be charged an ad fee if a sale occurred within 30 days of the last click.
Now it appears that the ad campaign still has to be active for the attribution to count, so ending a campaign stops the possibility of being charged the fee.
To be clear - this change only applies to the eBay.DE site for now but I wouldn't be surprised if this doesn't end up expanding at some point later this year, especially with the new Facebook Marketplace partnership.
valueaddedresource
OP1 year ago@gurlcat oh and to answer your other question, yes they do open the floor for questions at Roadshows and/or Open there, which is absolutely why they didn't mention anything about this change at the Liverpool event yesterday....they did not want the heat. 😂
Unfortunately no video of the actual "incident" ever surfaced but several YouTubers who attended Open UK 2024 in person said things got a bit tense in the fashion session with business sellers asking very pointed questions about still paying full FVF while having to compete against private sellers who did not have any fees (this was when it was just fee-free for clothing and hadn't been expanded to all categories yet and before the idea of a buyer fee had been mentioned).
And that whole fiasco actually happened just a week or two before they made the big announcement about dropping private seller fees in all categories, which again just like this ad situation was absolutely already in the works and "known about" by eBay at the time of that event but they didn't drop the other shoe then because they didn't want to take any more flak than they had already gotten.
I get it - honestly if I worked for eBay I can't say I'd have the fortitude to stand up in front of a real live crowd of sellers and announce this stuff either...but I tend to think that tingling of fear they might feel about such a prospect should maybe be taken as a warning sign that what they are about to do is not in fact in line with their stated ethics policies or corporate mantras about responsibility, accountability, or how much they supposedly care about their sellers.
inhawaii
·1 year agoNot to be a smarty pants .... but why would be need/want to know this if we don't live in Germany?
hartungcards
·1 year agoJust for the record, "smarty-pants" is a hyphenated word. "Smarty pants" are...oh, never mind.
valueaddedresource
OP1 year ago@inhawaii may I direct your smarty pants to message 87 in this thread and suggest you start reading from there?
https://community.ebay.com/t5/eBay-Advertising/Major-Changes-To-Promoted-Listings-Ad-Attribution-In-Germany/m-p/35095410#M349
If that's too much trouble for you, here's the TLDR:
It's not just in Germany any more, they announced today it is also coming to UK, Australia, Italy, France, and Spain next month and given that, plus the history of how things tend to go around here, there's a pretty high likelihood that sellers in Canada and the US will need/want to know about this by the end of the year.
If you prefer to wait until then, that's your prerogative of course, but that doesn't mean others with or without smart pants might be interested in it now so they can be aware, keep track of how it's going in other markets, and be prepared for if/when it will impact them too.
inhawaii
·1 year agoFair enough.
Thank you.
I have a hard enough time keeping track of what's going on in the US let alone other countries. 😉
gurlcat
·1 year agoTo be fair I didn't use to pay much attention to other-country eBay platforms either, but Tariffman changed all that for me in just the past few months. And although THIS thing has nothing to do with tariffs, it does appear to be something that will affect North American sellers sooner or later (probably sooner, because tariffs will likely cause an overall drop in eBay sales revenues and they gotta replace the loss somehow, or at least try to!).
Granted, if you don't promote your items this won't make any difference, but I'm sure at least a few sellers already piped up with that 'Helpful'-seeking declaration early in this thread, in January.
valueaddedresource
OP1 year agoFor everyone following along here, eBay just announced this new attribution model will be expanding to UK, Australia, Italy, France, and Spain next month.
https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/Major-Changes-To-Promoted-Listings-Ad-Attribution-UK-Australia/m-p/35095408#M2566796
gurlcat
·1 year agoThat SUCKS! Surely USA and Canada are right around the corner.
valueaddedresource
OP1 year ago@gurlcat yup. 😞
They introduced it for Germany at the end of February - just in time for a little bit of Q1 bump and into Q2.
Now UK, Australia, Italy, France and Spain at the tail end of Q2 for a Q3 bump.
Given the revenue pressure eBay is under, I will not be at all surprised if mid-late Q3 adds at least Canada if not also the US so it's in place before Q4 holiday season.
lotzofuniquegoodies
·1 year ago@valueaddedresource
I have approximately 2000 listings on dot ca. 1/3 are promoted at lowish rates. 75 to 80 % of my recent sales are of the promoted variety. Each time I go to create a new listing the eBay suggested rates are getting higher and higher. What actually might be more helpful (but will probably never happen) is for ebay to give longtail listings a bit of a bump in eyes. Probably just overly wishful thinking on my part. But those are the listings that are taking my majority of real estate and are getting harder to get seen.
As a side in the not to distant past using the same formula it was more like 1 in 5 being sold as promoted.
valueaddedresource
OP1 year ago@lotzofuniquegoodies thanks for sharing those numbers! Wish I could say I'm surprised, but sadly I'm not.
Also in the disappointing but not surprising category - apparently eBay had one of their in person Roadshow events with UK sellers yesterday, complete with a whole session about ads, and not one word about this major attribution bombshell they knew they were going to drop today.
That cowardly dodging what they knew would be very tough questions and lack of even the most basic level of respect for sellers doesn't bode too well for those going to Open in Vegas I'm afraid.
lotzofuniquegoodies
·1 year ago@valueaddedresource
@gurlcat What happens we do a little creative testing. Should we be shocked? Probably not.
In the not too distant future we should expect to see 90 to 100% suggested promoting rates. When it gets up there, I don't know about everyone else but I will have long tagged out. When promoted listings first showed their ugly head my first thought was it was going to turn into a game of 1 upping anyone else who could afford to. Only winner...eBay. Big loser the little sellers who just don't have that kind of margin.
Reminds me of a variation of surge pricing, paying a premium to jump the line or being at a casino when you raise 10....everyone else is raising 100. Time to cut your losses while you still have your shoes!!!
gurlcat
·1 year agoWot's "Roadshow events", Precious?
Is it just what they call eBay Open in the UK? And do they not open the floor to sellers' questions at all? I wouldnt' even watch video coverage of something like that, much less show up in person for it. Why not just go to a nearby farm and ask for the day's barn sweepings? Oh wait, horsesh!t is actually worth something.
valueaddedresource
OP1 year ago@gurlcat sorry but love the image. 😂
eBay does also have their own eBay Open in the UK - it will be in October this year and unlike in the US, it has been an in person even the last few years and will continue to be this year as well.
But they also do a few other in person events throughout the year where eBay staff travel to different areas to host them, which I suppose is why they call them Roadshows.
They seem to be kind of like a mini-Open or maybe more like an in person version of the quarterly Seller Check Ins? https://www.ebay.co.uk/sml/uk-events
They do something similar in Germany too but call it eBay On Tour (or at least that's what Google translates it to 😂)
I would imagine with both of those being smaller markets and smaller countries, it's more feasible for eBay to do those kinds of events whereas here in the US they mostly just look for sellers to sponsor meet up groups in their local areas that eBay may then occasionally send swag/supplies to and, depending on location, they also sometimes send eBay personnel as well.
gurlcat
·1 year agoIf you go to 'revise' one of those old listings, scroll down to the bottom of the listing creation page and notice how much higher the suggested ad rate is for that item, compared to a brand new listing of an item in the exact same category. -What that is telling you is that you would have to pay a lot more to get equal visibility for that old item, because the algorithm has deemed it to be too disinteresting to show to buyers; it has gone "stale".
But rather than increase your ad rate on those, what you need to do is end them, then go to your ended listings and 'sell similar' them. Before you hit 'list', turn the promotion OFF. Then after listing it, turn it back on, and VOILA you will see that it now has a much lower suggested ad rate, because it's treating the listing as brand new. And this applies no matter how much below the SAR you want to apply; it's how much your rate compares TO the SAR that matters. In fact even if you don't apply any promotion at all, end/sell similar can give you a big sales boost.
It's a lot of work, but it's the only way on a site with so many other sellers.
simba6
·1 year agoDeutschland uber alles
gurlcat
·1 year agoI just realized I'm not 100% clear on something. -What starts the 30 day period, the day the listing goes live, or the day it gets its' first promoted view? I strongly suspect the latter, but if that's correct, does that also mean that each promoted view restarts the 30-day clock?
Also, would it matter if the buyer had first viewed the item organically (maybe put it on Watch) BEFORE it had any promoted views, but later purchased it after it had one or more promoted views? I suspect I know the answer to that too. 😔
valueaddedresource
OP1 year ago@gurlcat the 30 days is counted from the time of its first promoted view, not when the listing goes live.
And yes, since it would be counted any time any user clicks on an ad, the attribution timeframe would just keep being pushed out 30 days from the last ad click until/unless the seller turns off the ad (and then presumably waits at least 30 days to put it back in an ad campaign, if @luckythewinner's thoughts about that are correct, which I think they likely will be.)
My reading of it is that no, it will not matter if the buyer first viewed organically when there were no ad clicks, then came back later to buy after there were ad clicks - if there were ad clicks at any time before the purchase and the item is still in an active campaign at the time of purchase, the ad fee applies.
gurlcat
·1 year agoThank you so much. So if sellers did have any chance of reducing their profit losses by lowering or turning off promotions ..... or even just getting a sense of whether eBay continues to promote their items after first-click, that item view tracker (and I guess to a lesser extent the store-wide Traffic page view tracker, lousy as it is since they "streamlined" it into one small chart with tabs for views, impressions, and sales, so you can't view them simultaneously like before) .... would be the only tools available to sellers to make these assessments. Do you know if the Germans have them?
my-cottage-books-and-antiques
·1 year ago@gurlcat I agree with @valueaddedresource . The 30 day count is a LOOKBACK count. Since we can't know which day our item will sell, we can't really know which 30 days will matter. I think what you are really asking is : how can the Germans game the new system?
I would suggest you first ask yourself: is it worth the effort?
If a seller is using the minimum 2%, would it really be worth monitoring all this, and trying to end listings and put them back in later etc?
And even if a seller is using a higher rate. If , as we suggest, the seller never uses a rate that it too high for his margins, would it be worth the effort?
You made a suggestion for something that might work in Germany after this goes into effect. Get some watchers, and then end the ad campaign and send offers. Since the listing is no longer in a campaign, there will be no 30 day lookback, and the sale should go through without a fee.
If this comes here, that would work here AS LONG AS ebay does not bring a hybrid here. Remember, currently in the US, if a buyer clicks on a sponsored listing (and let's says watches it), and you end the ad campaign, send an offer to the watcher and watcher buys....if he buys within 30 days of his click, you pay the ad fee (that is considered a "direct sale") even though the listing is no longer in a campaign at all.
My question for @valueaddedresource : In Germany today, is that direct rule the same as in the US? That is, this German change actually drops that rule?
Or, is that rule non-existent in Germany today, (perhaps because EU rules prohibit charging an ad fee for a sale that isn't part of an active campaign?), and so it hasn't been dropped, because it doesn't exist in the first place?
And if ebay brings the new rule here, what is to stop them from retaining the direct rule as well?
gurlcat
·1 year agoI'd say that would vary a lot from seller-to-seller. For me, yes it certainly might be worth the effort. It's been a minute but if I recall correctly, the last time I tallied my 'sold via promotion' in the prior 90 days, I think it was about 40% of my solds. If my 'via' were to shoot up to nearly 100% overnight, I would need to either: reconsider my definition of "too high for my margins" and lower my ad rate store-wide (and probably lower my sales as a result), or put in effort to game the system, to keep my sales stable but keep the number of "via"s down. -Again just me, but I think the latter would at least be worth a try. For someone with thousands of listings, maybe not.
my-cottage-books-and-antiques
·1 year ago@gurlcat Agree. Each seller will have to decide for himself. Of course, it still hasn't launched in Germany, so I personally won't spend a lot of time working on strategies just yet. If it does launch here, I'll certainly look at the German boards to see what they came up with.
valueaddedresource
OP1 year ago@gurlcat yes, eBay.De has "Seller Cockpit Pro" which is their version of Seller Hub and I've been able to confirm it does include those reports at least for business sellers for sure, not 100% sure about private sellers.
Also just a side note - poking around the German community the last few days reveals many of them have lost access to the Listing Quality Report too, they've been told the same thing we have over here about why that is and they are just as frustrated about it as we are. 😂
my-cottage-books-and-antiques
·1 year ago@valueaddedresource Yes, I noticed that too. I assume the Listing Quality Report will eventually be fully retired in both Germany and the USA.
Overall, I'm guessing as with most ebay changes, most ebay sellers will prove resilient and adaptable and they'll adapt to this change.
I'm sure some will feel I'm over-reacting here, but my larger concern is that ebay is effectively doing away with the one ad vehicle that was performance based. ebay has not been able to grow gmv (Sales) and so they've resorted to ad revenue the last few years to show growth. Now that they are giving up on ads that are tied to sales, well, that strikes me as a further admission that they have no confidence in their ability to really grow sales. In order to grow ad revenue, they have had to entirely divorce ads from actual sales.
This change does not exactly inspire confidence in ebay's future. I wish it were otherwise, and I'd be happy to hear from the Ads Team as to why this should inspire us to believe ebay sales will reach new heights, but.....so far....well, here we are.
gurlcat
·1 year agoI don't think you're overreacting, and if anyone does I'd love to see what better explanation they could theorize for this program. In fact, from my memory of forum discussions, I would say you have been .... maybe not the most "YAY-RAH!" cheerleader of promotions, but certainly one of the least fearful and bitter about them, or at least the forms of promotion we've seen so far. So if you're assessing this new one as pure desperation on eBay's part, I can't imagine who would disagree or what more-innocent light they could shed on it. If anything I can think of some who would view it as proof that eBay wants to get rid of sellers (small sellers, non-Chinese sellers, sellers of this or that item type, etc.) ... or some other conspiracty theory.
But just a desperate idea to get more money out of sales that do occur instead of raising sales by competing better with other platforms .... seems pretty obvious. And yeah I'd like to see how the Ad Team could even try to construe how this would fetch more sales.
valueaddedresource
OP1 year agomy-cottage-books-and-antiques
·1 year ago@valueaddedresource I suspect that is another reason for this, yes.
I also think Germany was chosen because, well, let's face it, this is no longer a performance based ad business. It is something else, and some people might feel the whole thing is pretty sketchy. But if this is legally challenged and passes muster in the EU , which has a far more robust consumer protection viewpoint than the US, well, I would not be surprised to see it come here. You know, "Good news Sellers! We've simplified General Ad Campaigns!"
Still, if it comes here, I'm with you. My basic advice would be the same as now: IF you are going to use a General Ad Campaign, choose a rate based on your margins, not on ebay's fanciful suggested rates, and assume you will be paying the ad fee for every item sold while it is in a campaign. Be grateful for the few that somehow escape a fee, but accept that the rate you choose will be pretty much like an FVF----you make the sale, you pay the fee.
I'd add:
1. Think long and hard about whether a campaign will actually help you. Remember, you will have no real way to track the effectiveness of the campaign, because the ad fees being charged are not required to have any connection to the sales being made.
2. If you decide to use a campaign, give some real thought not just to the rate, but to duration and selection of items.
3. If you use social media to drive traffic to your store, recognize that this change will have an impact on that strategy, as it greatly increases the chance that sales resulting from traffic you drove to a listing will still be charged an ad fee.
luckythewinner
·1 year agoHere's a thought, apologies if it has been raised before:
One way to read "The item must be advertised with an ad both at the time of the click and at the time of the sale" suggests that you would be charged a fee since it was promoted with "an" ad at the time of the click and at the time of the sale even though the ads were in different campaigns.
valueaddedresource
OP1 year ago@luckythewinner I agree it could be interpreted that way and also agree eBay will likely try to interpret things as broadly as they can get away with for this new attribution model, so it won't surprise me if that's how it ends up working but we probably won't know for sure until it goes into effect next month.
my-cottage-books-and-antiques
·1 year ago@luckythewinner That's the way I read it too. It can be the same campaign or a different campaign....as long as the sold item is in a campaign when sold, ebay will look back 30 days to see if someone clicked on it while it was in a General ad campaign. It doesn't need to be the same campaign.
If we're wrong, I'm sure it will come out after this is released in Germany, if not before.
backpacktreasures
·1 year agoIf this comes to the US or Canada, we would just have to assume that 100% of our sales will be from promoted listings and build that into our price.
valueaddedresource
OP1 year ago@backpacktreasures exactly - at that point it basically just becomes a FVF increase by a different name and be baked into pricing just like the actual FVF.
And of course once you bake more in for the ad fee, that increases the total amount the actual FVF is assessed on too so eBay thinks they'll just be rolling in dough.
The biggest problem I see with that is eBay seems to myopically think that the rising prices as a result won't be a big deal because many sellers here will have to do it, so they'll still be relatively "competitive" against each other - which completely ignores the reality of how most people shop online, comparing prices across many sites to find the best deal.
my-cottage-books-and-antiques
·1 year ago@valueaddedresource I suspect the FBMP deal is part of the reason for this. But I also wonder if ebay has finally realized that the higher the suggested rates, the more resistance they get. There actually IS a ceiling on just how much sellers are willing to pay, that ceiling is south of, say, 30% for almost everyone, and south of 20% and even 15% or 10% for most sellers. So, pushing sellers to raise their rates has run out of steam....and has maybe even backfired to some extent.
We can't know whether this will come here or not, but , unless there is some legal reason, if this works out OK in Germany, I see no reason why ebay would not bring it here. ebay has made many changes over the years to Promoted Listings Standard, all of them designed to goose ad revenue without the need to increase sales (I provided a list in one of my posts above, I think). This is designed to do the same thing.
But this is fundamentally different, even radically different. I can't overstate that. While ebay , of course, did not come out and say it, in Germany, when this goes live, ebay will have completely divorced the sale from the ad.
That is a HUGE change. Before, you paid the fee after the sale BECAUSE the ad contributed to making the sale. You paid, in short, because the ad campaign did its job....it brought you a sale. Now, by definition, that is no longer the case. You will now pay whether the ad campaign did its job or not. You are now paying for the privilege of running an ad campaign, not for running an ad campaign that successfully brought you a sale.
PLS was designed as a Performance Based Ad Campaign. You only paid an ad fee IF the ad brought you a sale. If your sale was independent of the ad campaign, you didn't pay. Now you will pay IF the ad brought you a sale, but you will ALSO pay if it did not...as long as someone clicked on the item (as sponsored) once with the last 30 days. SO, it is true, you will not pay ad ad fee if your item is NOT in an ad campaign when it sells. But if it is in an ad campaign, even though it is not shown as an ad to the buyer, even though the buyer has never seen the item or any of your items in an ad campaign, you will pay because someone else clicked on your item within the last 30 days.
This not only redefines what had been a Performance Based Ad Campaign, it also exponentially increases the odds that you be charged an ad fee.
It's ebay's sandbox. they make the rules. But it is important to understand that this rule doesn't simply increase the minimum fee or change the fee calculation from item price to total price.....this radically transforms the General Ad Campaign from a campaign based on successful performance to one based on something much less.
Now, think for a moment what this does to ebay's incentive. Previously, ebay had some real incentive to actively promote your listing, to get the sale and collect the ad fee. Now, ebay will have some real incentive to get that first click, and the incentive to keep promoting your listing in good slots declines after that....because once they get that first click, as long as your item sells within an ad campaign within the next 30 days to anyone, they get the ad fee.
How long, dear friends, before ebay requires a minimum duration of 30 days (or more) for all ad campaigns? I ask that only partly tongue in cheek.
fern*wood
·1 year agoAgain, I'm simply not up on this like you guys are, but to my simple mind it seems like a buyer has to click on an item to buy it, so that will be all that needs to happen to get the ad fee if they go ahead and purchase. I don't see any way to avoid paying an ad fee on any item with promotions that sells. I'm not clear how this wasn't the case before this change.
valueaddedresource
OP1 year ago@fern*wood see post 54 in this thread for more details but no, that's not exactly correct.
With this change in Germany, the page view that "activates" whether or not a fee is charged still has to come from an ad - that means it has to have been clicked on when shown as a Sponsored ad in search results, in Sponsored ad sections on other listing pages or across other parts of the eBay site etc.
If a buyer views an item when it is not shown in an ad - for example clicks through from an organic non-sponsored search result or a seller's store page - and then purchases that item and theirs was the only view on the item, that sale would not be charged an ad fee even though the item was enrolled in a Promoted Listings campaign.
If the buyer clicks though from an organic placement like that and purchases but theirs was not the only view and at least one other click by another user in the last 30 days was on an ad, then the ad fee will be applied even though the actual buyer wasn't the one who saw the ad, if that makes sense.
So there is a possibility some sales will still be completely organic with no ad fees assessed, but they will be far fewer than under the previous attribution model.
my-cottage-books-and-antiques
·1 year ago@fern*wood I think you said at one point that you don't use General Ad Campaigns? So, first, a little important background. Let's say I put all my listings into a General Ad Campaign. That does not mean everytime someone sees my listing, he is seeing it as a sponsored listing. ebay can CHOOSE to show it as sponsored, OR as organic. A good example of a listing shown as organic but in a promoted listing campaign would be: go to my ebay store (let's say you get there because I posted about my store on social media) If you are in my store (not just my other listings), ebay will display my listings there as organic. So you click on one, you buy it, and even though it is IN an ad campaign, there is no ad fee....because it was not SHOWN to you as a sponsored listing.
Now, if you are on ebay, doing a search, and you see that same listing in search, and ebay IS showing it to you as sponsored, and you buy it....there's an ad fee. Because the ad (sponsored listing) was actually involved in the sale.
Now, in Germany when this new rule goes into effect: Yes, of course, you click on a clearly marked sponsored listing and buy it, that fits within the new rule: someone (you, in this case) clicked on the listing within 30 days of the purchase (in this case, within minutes, actually.)
BUT, now let's say Herr Schmidt (a man you do not know) sees my item as a sponsored item in search and clicks on it. He doesn't buy it. Just looks at it, and leaves. 29 days later, you see my link to my store on social media, and you go to my store. You are shown the item as an organic listing (it is in an ad campaign). You click and buy it. You have NEVER seen an ad from me. You are there because of my own effort to drive traffic from social media to my store.
ebay will collect its ad fee. You--the actual buyer---did not click on a sponsored listing, did not ever see an ad from me. But ah, Herr Schmidt DID click on the listing 29 days ago, and , well, there you have it! ebay collects its fee because its ad campaign....well, actually, its ad campaign contributed exactly nothing to make the ultimate sale happen....but ebay will still collect its fee. It's Magic.
my-cottage-books-and-antiques
·1 year ago@fern*wood Now, just to help you understand the full impact here:
Most of us on this board sell one offs (like me). So, in the Herr Schmidt example, his one click meant I had to pay a fee on your purchase. Now, change the scenario slightly. Let's say I am a multi quantity seller. Herr Schmidt clicks again, and within 30 days, I am highly successful with my social media efforts, and you and 20 other people come to my store and go to that listing Herr Schmidt clicked, and you each buy one item from my multi quantity listing. So, through my own social media efforts, I have made 21 sales from just that one listing! Yippee for me!
And, of course, Yippee! for ebay, because ebay will collect an ad fee on every one of those 21 sales, despite the fact that NONE of those buyers ever so much as saw a single ad from me. ebay probably should send a thank you note to Herr Schmidt, because their own ad campaign certainly had nothing to do with me making those sales, but Herr Schmidt (quite unintentionally) had everything to do with ebay collecting those ad fees.
So, is this a change? Oh yes. Yes. It is a whopper of a change.
fern*wood
·1 year agoThanks to you both for taking the time to explain stuff to me and I apologize for dragging down your excellent (advanced) discussion with my lack of knowledge on the subject. You have clarified a lot for me that I was too lazy to read & understand on my own. 😕 Please carry on!😊
@my-cottage-books-and-antiques
@valueaddedresource
valueaddedresource
OP1 year ago@fern*wood no worries and you aren't dragging anything down! Odds are other people probably have the same questions and may just not ask so it's all good and the discussion helps get more info out there for those who may just be reading along too. 😊
my-cottage-books-and-antiques
·1 year ago@valueaddedresource Also, to circle back to something I brought up before I fully understood what was going on here: ebay has the internal data to distinguish between an ad fee generated by a successful ad (buyer clicks on item as promoted listing and buys it) and one generated by fairy dust (buyer clicks on organic listing which is in a campaign, buyer has never seen an ad from this seller, but within the last 30 days, someone else had clicked on this listing when it was shown as sponsored)
ebay could provide that information to the seller who is paying these ad fees. No one has been begging ebay to "simplify" the reporting by wiping out important distinctions which can help sellers determine the effectiveness of their ad campaign. The refusal to provide that information to sellers has nothing to do with simplification, it has everything to do with the fact that providing the information would likely lead many sellers to conclude that their campaigns are woefully lacking, with too many ad fees being generated by fairy dust rather than the ads themselves.
SInce the ad campaigns are no longer performance based, sellers will not be able to judge the effectiveness of a campaign , period.
gurlcat
·1 year agoHoly cow that's a very good point.
Also with the limitations of module slots (copious as the are, they are still limited) the German model would also add a conflicting factor of time, to the pre-existing factor of promotion rate. What I mean is, up til now, the higher an item's promotion rate, the more often it'll get a module slot (maybe also in the modules higher up on the page?) -admittedly I'm not even sure how it works but that's my best guess. BUT with the German model, the goal would be to try to get just one promoted view as early as possible. So how would the algorithm handle those competing factors? What would get more/higher module slots -an item with 20% promotion rate on its' third day, or an item with 2% on its' first day? Without the German sorting, that's a no-brainer. But WITH it ..... if the 20% item has already had a promoted view, it would presumably take a back seat to the 2% item still waiting for its' first view!
Now tell me this, LOL: how long does anyone think THIS handy-dandy tool would remain available to us? @valueaddedresource or anyone else who talks to Germans, do they even have this item-specific view tracker available on their Listings page, before the new promotion scheme takes effect?
rugerskick
·1 year agoThe new change: if anyone clicks on a PL of yours, if it sells in 30 days, you pay the PL fee, even if it wasn't bought buy a person who clicked on the ad.
If this happens here, I'm done with promoted listings completely, at least that's my current feeling about it.
mr_lincoln
·1 year agoHi @valueaddedresource
Thanks for posting ... I abandoned PLS near the end of 2023 ... long story short their manipulation of listings and magically inflated "Suggested rates" just to get sales back to previous levels during a campaign meant unsustainable sales. For what I sell they wanted around 25% total fees (FVFs plus Ad Rates) just to maintain previous selling volume through PLS ... errrnt. Not on my watch.
I wish more Sellers would just stop using PLS or PLA ...
gurlcat
·1 year agoTotally understandable, of course. But they're glad you don't use it for the same reason you wish they didn't.
LOL I am reminded of my first job at 16, 1989 .... yes, Waffle House .... when this was the female uniform top. The waitress I most often worked with always made way more tips than I, and who knows the actual reasons, but even new customers would come in and look around a while then tend to go toward her section, especially if they were men. And no I wouldn't say she was better looking than I . But I remember one of the cooks said to me "Have you ever noticed something different about her uniform?" -I sneakily looked at her ..... no idea what the heck he was talking about. So he rolled his eyes and said "You know, she gives a clearer view" and pointed to the 'V' of her neckline. -Then I realized, she had cut that single inch of white down the rest of the way, to the striped part. I was immediately filled with "ick" and that awful 'naive fool' feeling you get (or maybe you don't, maybe it's a young girl thing, lol).
But I didn't care if it made her a fortune -I would never. Just NEVER.
valueaddedresource
OP1 year ago@cardxcraft for clarity, here's what a search for a seller id looks like
 
And here's what a store search of that seller's store looks like
 
cardxcraft
·1 year agoOk, I understand. Thanks for clarifying with the screenshots.
valueaddedresource
OP1 year agoThanks @cardxcraft . I was able to replacate those results using a seller name that does have PL active but it's what I thought - what you are doing is a full site search for items from that sellar ID which works just like any other search so ads would be able to be shown.
That is not the same thing as ads being displayed in a store.
cardxcraft
·1 year agoOk. When I use Android and search for a seller/user, that has only the seller items, it's still considered a subset of the search function, and is subjected to sponsored listings?
How would I go to a seller store and not have sponsored listings so up?
wastingtime101
·1 year agoHi @cardxcraft . This is the difference. Top = Store / Bottom = regular search
cardxcraft
·1 year agoThanks. I'm using Android and never noticed this.
wastingtime101
·1 year agoI'm on iOS. Interesting you don't see the same thing.
I'll only see the distinction when the store ID and user ID are the same. When seller's user ID and store ID are different, it will only show me the one I'm searching for without a choice.
cardxcraft
·1 year agoSorry, I didn't mean to hijack your thread, just thought I would post, as it's a related subject.
my-cottage-books-and-antiques
·1 year ago@cardxcraft Thanks for posting the screen shots. I've been saying for a while now that this will be the year ebay puts competitor ads in our stores (maybe on the search pages, and if not, then on the About page, feedback page, etc.) So, we aren't there yet, but showing our own listings in our own stores as sponsored is certainly a step in that direction. We must always remember, just like the listing pages themselves, ebay can put whatever they want on our store pages. Up till now, they avoided doing it, probably because they know it will be unpopular. But they might be getting to the point where they are running out of ideas to gin up more ad revenue, and since they seem incapable of actually increasing sales in any substantial way, here's where we are.
my-cottage-books-and-antiques
·1 year ago@cardxcraft I am not seeing the "sponsored" in your store on my PC or on the Android App, so maybe if we're lucky it is just a glitch?
valueaddedresource
OP1 year ago@my-cottage-books-and-antiques yeah I'm not seeing it either - but also when I search their store I don't see "search with..." like it shows in that screenshot which makes me think there is some other step in the process to get those results rather than just doing a store search like you and I might be doing.
Or maybe it's an iOS thing? I have Android too so can't test that possibility.
cardxcraft
·1 year agoI stopped my pl, which is why you're not seeing "sponsored" for my listings.
I'm using Andoid and iOS eBay app. For both, it's easy, just go to search and type in seller name and select "user" drop down. See ss below. This will take you specifically to the store listings for seller name entered.
 
cardxcraft
·1 year agoI stopped by pl campaign. I was getting no pl imressions @9% so there's no way I'm going higher.
cardxcraft
·1 year agoThe reason I bring this up is because there's no way eBay could categorize these listings as sponsored because technically, they're not being advertised through normal search or their affilitions. It's direct, through store listings.
Here's a ss of my store when viewed from another account: All of my listings are defined as pl within my store. I'm running a general campaign, same as ss of other seller.
 
valueaddedresource
OP1 year agoThanks @cardxcraft and no worries about hijacking the thread.
What are the steps you are taking to get to that point if you don't mind sharing? It's not clear to me from the screenshot if you are actually looking at a store or just a search for items from that seller ID - and those aren't necessarily the same thing.
cardxcraft
·1 year agoHere's another change I noticed about a month ago on eBay.com. Previously, If a seller was using PL campaign a buyer could go directly to the store search and by-pass the pl. Now, if a buyer searches through a store with a pl campaign, all listing being promoted show up as promoted within the store; even newly created, direct links.
valueaddedresource
OP1 year ago@cardxcraft do you have screenshots of what you are talking about?
I'm not going to say I've never seen promoted ads shown on a store page because there was a time a couple years ago eBay tried it then said it was an "error" and reverted back but....it's definitely not something I've seen any time since then.
cardxcraft
·1 year agoYes, here's a ss: This is just one of many stores I've looked at. I chose this seller because I've bought from him for many years and I would go directly to his store to buy. Now all store listings have sponsored.
robbie31415
·1 year agoSo bad....
Changes like these annoy me....
So I blast it at high percentage for short periods, and cancel it, then offer a discount to send them a message, and I shouldn't be charged an ad fee because it's no longer active?
gurlcat
·1 year agoUgh, this was your very last ever reply in the Community. Where ART thou, Rob-bi-o????
valueaddedresource
OP1 year ago@my-cottage-books-and-antiques My point was just that the "Halo Attribution Rule" is in fact going away for PL Basic/General sales on the .DE site - it's not just that they won't be reporting it any more, they also won't be using it to determine whether the seller is charged an ad fee.
I get where you're coming from but not sure it really makes a difference either way.
Yes, eBay will still have access to data about which items are clicked, when those clicks happen and whether those clicks were promoted or organic. And they'll still be tracking Halo vs Direct in some way since it will apply for sellers based in Germany who sell on the US, UK or other sites and as @wastingtime101 pointed it, it says that info will still be included in reports for sales German sellers make on other sites.
I'm a huge proponent of transparency, but I also believe in order for the display of data to be useful, it has to have context and meaning for the user. In this case, if Direct vs Halo no longer has any bearing or relevance to how eBay determines ad attribution for sales on the .DE site, then I'm not sure what purpose it would serve to continue to provide that specific data in the same format as they did before.
As long as it is still shown for sales where Direct vs Halo actually means something in terms of whether or not the seller is charged a fee, then it's as transparent as it was before in my opinion - which isn't saying much but that's a whole other conversation. 😉
Now if the point is just more generally that eBay should provide all users with much more in depth information about where clicks are coming from so they can have some independent validation rather than the black box "trust me bro" situation we have now - I am all for that, but I see that as a larger overarching issue not necessarily something specific to Direct vs Halo vs whatever we are going to call this thing they are doing in Germany now. 😂
ittybitnot
·1 year agoMy point was just that the "Halo Attribution Rule" is in fact going away for PL Basic/General sales on the .DE site -
@valueaddedresource
What do they call this new one? A ghost, or secret attribution? If your ad gets a click BY anyone, even if they are looking for general information and not a buyer, and the listing gets purchased BY anyone (even if it not the person who clicked) you are going to get an ad fee.
I don't guess eBay is going to let the seller know their ad got a click (by someone who just wanted to lift their pictures for their own listing), so they could turn it off?
Thank you for your report. It is appreciated as always.
valueaddedresource
OP1 year ago@ittybitnot you're welcome! As far as I can tell, eBay isn't calling this new model in Germany anything specific.
The only thing I see that even sort of sounds like a new name/title is the question about click fraud where it says "What is eBay doing to prevent competitors from clicking on ads to trigger the 30-day organic buyer period?"
But I hope to God that doesn't mean they are thinking of calling this some kind of abomination like Organic Promoted Listings Ad Attribution because that really would make my head explode. 🤣
Jokes aside, for now I think I'm just going to call it Promoted Listings Basic ad attribution for eBay.de because in theory once it goes into affect it will be the only attribution model for those kinds of ads on that site so there really shouldn't be a need to have a specific name for it beyond that.
gurlcat
·1 year ago-Unrelated to the "new name/title" subject, but the FAQ item you bolded there got me very curious. I found it and I guess I'm seeing it translated slightly differently, but regardless, the "answer" has to be the most absurd NON-answer to a very important question I have ever seen.
Oh yeah, I'm SURE they'll use the robustest bustinest buster technologies ever! They wouldn't want to earn one penny from clicks for evil, only clicks for good!!
Also is it just me or does it not even make sense as a FAQ question? Like what kind of selling advantage would a bandit seller get from triggering other sellers' 30 day things? It doesn't seem an applicable factor even in a zero sum game.
my-cottage-books-and-antiques
·1 year ago@gurlcat
Once this takes effect in Germany, Competing Seller A can click on Seller B's promoted listing. If that listing sells within the next 30 days to someone else , even though shown to the buyer as an organic listing, as long as the listing is part of an ad campaign, Seller B will have to pay the General Ad fee because his competitor, Seller A clicked on the listing 30 days ago.
gurlcat
·1 year agoYes I read Liz' description of it and understood it (plenty of coffee behind me LOL). But what I meant was .... okay say you clicked on another book seller's promoted listing, not out of curiosity but for competitive reasons. How would their having to pay the ad fee if a buyer buys it organically HELP YOUR SALES?
my-cottage-books-and-antiques
·1 year ago@gurlcat
It wouldn't help my sales directly. it would cut into my competitor's profits. But frankly, I think that sort of thing is probably not going to be a real big problem.
my-cottage-books-and-antiques
·1 year ago@valueaddedresource Gotta disagree.
You say: " it's not just that they won't be reporting it any more, they also won't be using it to determine whether the seller is charged an ad fee."
Sure they will. Ignore what they say, and look at what they will DO.
The ad fee will be charged based on the criteria ebay has in place for direct and halo sales. They cannot charge a fee without determining whether those criteria have been met or not.
So, now, in Germany, they might refer to them internally as something other than direct or halo, but they will still be using the criteria as defined by direct and halo. And internally, ebay is a data driven company, and you can bet the Ads Team is going to keep track of the impacts of the different criteria.
So, whatever they call it, and whatever they say, they ARE using the CRITERIA for direct and halo, and they COULD provide us with that data (which, as you note they will continue to do outside of Germany). They are CHOOSING not to share it with us.
SInce the data they do provide us is supposedly to help us make informed decisions about the value of promoted listings, why take this away?
I agree 100%....data needs context, and ebay provides precious little of that. BUT...if I discover that 20% of my ad fees are tied to direct sales (sales that have a fairly clear connection to the ad) and 80% are tied to Halo sales (which, by ebay's own definition, are not required to have ANY REAL connection to the ad), well, that provides me with information I think is pretty important. That tells me that 80% of the ad fees I'm paying are based on the flimsiest connection imaginable to an actual ad campaign.
So, I can understand why ebay would rather not provide this information to us.
Look, this company is in trouble. They have failed to really grow GMV for years now, as their competition takes more and more of the ecommerce market. In the absence of sales growth, they have relied on ad revenue for whatever revenue growth they've been able to show. And that ad growth is not coming from increased sales velocity or even a huge increase in ad adoption by sellers. It is coming from all these growth "hacks" the Ads Team has been coming up with: 1% minimum to 2%---boom, more ad revenue, without a need to increase sales. Fee calculated on total sales price rather than item price. Boom, more ad revenue without sales growth. Halo Attribution---ebay has even acknowledged that this alone grew ad revenue considerably. Again, no need to increase sales, just broaden the definition of which sales get hit with the ad fee. General Ad Dynamic minimum fee from 2% to 5% without any announcement. Boom...you guessed it...Ever increasing "Suggested" rates, some in excess of the FVF rate. Yep....Boom...And now in Germany we have Halo #2.
NONE of these changes have really moved the needle on GMV. ALL of them have increased Ad Revenue without the pesky need to increase sales.
2025 is ebay's 30th Anniversary Celebration. I'm betting it will also be the year ebay adds sponsored listings to our store pages. The Halo Rules have already come for our store listings which are shown organically so should not be hit with an ad fee, but with the Halo rule (or rules, in Germany), more sales made directly from our stores, or from a social media page, will be hit with an ad fee.
The inability to grow GMV at any real pace has made ebay dependent on ads, and ebay has to keep finding more and more ways to extract ad revenue from its base.
So, yes, ebay has plenty of data on direct and halo...and plenty of reason to NOT want to share it with us.
The Germans will be shown data that lumps direct and halo together, so that sellers will have no idea just how many of those sales are the result of a changed definition, rather than the result of an actual connection to an ad.
valueaddedresource
OP1 year ago@my-cottage-books-and-antiques I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. The update clearly says they will not be using the Direct vs Halo criteria for attribution for these sales and the way the new model is described makes it pretty clear how it is different from that old model - It's not just a semantic or name difference.
"The ad fee will be charged based on the criteria ebay has in place for direct and halo sales. They cannot charge a fee without determining whether those criteria have been met or not."
Sure they can - they can charge the fee based on the new criteria that the policy update clearly lays out, exactly as they say they will.
Aside from a general distrust of eBay (which they have very fairly earned) , I'm not sure what would make you think they aren't going to actually do what the update says they are going to do.
You know I'm not one to take eBay at their word on everything, but in this case I personally think they will likely do what it says for two reasons:
A.) Europe in general has a more robust regulatory enforcement structure around things like this, so the risk would be higher, especially when they have very clearly and explicitly put it in writing.
But more importantly and to your other points:
B.) Why would they secretly keep using the old Direct and Halo model when the new model will likely increase the number of sales on which they can claim attribution and charge a fee?
I don't have hard numbers so I'll admit I'm just guessing but I think it's definitely plausible this new model could generate more ad revenue for eBay than the old one and more importantly, I don't think eBay would be doing it if they thought it would make less revenue - for all the reasons you pointed out and more.
For now all we have is what eBay says - we'll have to wait until next month and check back in on the German forum to see what they do.
my-cottage-books-and-antiques
·1 year ago@valueaddedresource Ah, comes the dawn.... thank you for your patience.
OK, I guess I should have had a third cup of coffee. I completely misunderstood what was happening here. My fault, and my apologies.
So, ebay has NOT ADDED a new Halo variation in Germany to the existing direct and halo attributions. They have REPLACED the current attribution criteria (direct and halo) with a single criteria? Is that correct?
valueaddedresource
OP1 year ago@my-cottage-books-and-antiques no worries - in fairness I've had 3 cups of coffee more than I usually do today just trying to keep warm until the snow/ice finally melts and I can't believe I"m saying that in Florida. 😂
"So, ebay has NOT ADDED a new Halo variation in Germany to the existing direct and halo attributions. They have REPLACED the current attribution criteria (direct and halo) with a single criteria? Is that correct?"
Yes that is correct - best I can tell from Google translate any way. lol
Once this goes into effect for PL Basic/General on eBay.de the only criteria for attribution will be:
eBay will record an attributable sale from a basic campaign when a buyer purchases the same item advertised in the ad clicked by any buyer in the last 30 days.
The ad fee is charged when a buyer purchases the item advertised in a basic ad that was clicked by any buyer in the last 30 days. The item must be advertised with an ad both at the time of the click and at the time of the sale. The ad fee is based on the ad rate in effect at the time of the sale.
my-cottage-books-and-antiques
·1 year ago@valueaddedresource "I don't have hard numbers so I'll admit I'm just guessing but I think it's definitely plausible this new model could generate more ad revenue for eBay than the old one..."
I would guess the same.
If I'm understanding this correctly, a clear cut attribution will get the fee, just as now: buyer clicks on sponsored item, buys it, fee is charged. They appear to be giving up the other variant of a direct attribution, which is buyer clicks on sponsored item, doesn't buy it, comes back within 30 days and buys it, even though it is now no longer in an ad campaign, a fee will still be charged. That won't be the case in Germany. However, it he comes back and buys it and it is shown organically but in a campaign, a fee will still be charged. So, are they really giving up all that much? I doubt it.
They are also technically giving up the Halo attribution, since that involves buyer clicks item A, comes back within 30 days and buys Item B (shown organically, but part of a campaign).
But the new rule is, IMHO, much more expansive than even the old Halo rule. Now if ANYONE clicks Item B, and our buyer buys within 30 days, there's a fee. And if our buyer clicks Item A and never comes back, but someone else does come within 30 days of our buyer's click, the Item A sale will also get hit with the fee.
I think we can all agree that, assuming ebay actually does follow its own criteria: the buyer clicks sponsored ad and buys it, well, that is pretty clearly attributable to the ad. But I think we can also all agree that the connection between Mr Smith clicking sponsored Item A 30 days ago and Mr Jones buying it today as an organic listing (but part of a campaign)....well, there is no rational connection at all. The only thing that ties these two events together is that ebay, totally unencumbered by facts, has now arbitrarily declared them to be virtually one and the same, inseparable, and thus ebay deserves to be paid an ad fee.
Now, granted, ebay has established criteria that must be met for a fee to be charged. So, this isn't ebay just randomly applying an ad fee to whatever sale it wants to. But the rule is so ludicrously broad, well, when the seller looks at his ad fee data he will actually have no possible way of knowing if ads helped him or not. He will know they helped ebay generate revenue for ebay, but to say there is any sort of nexus between Mr Smith clicking an item weeks before Mr Jones buys it is laughable.
valueaddedresource
OP1 year ago@my-cottage-books-and-antiques now you're getting it.
It's not Direct and Halo plus something else, it's just the something else....but that something else at least at face value is very broad and seems like it will likely allow eBay to assess ad fees on more sales than they were with just Direct and Halo before.
eBay makes it look like they are giving in a little by getting rid of that previous 30 day overhang where an ad fee could still be charged even if the campaign had ended and giving up the Halo attribution, but like you said, in the grand scheme I don't think they're really losing much and more than likely expect to actually be gaining over all with the new model.
my-cottage-books-and-antiques
·1 year ago@valueaddedresource Oh, absolutely. They wouldn't be trying this if they didn't think it would substantially increase ad revenue. As you noted, at present, a lot of stuff bought from a store listing (within a store), from social media, etc...that stuff can slip past an ad fee even if the item is in an ad campaign. But this greatly increases the odds of items shown organically being charged an ad fee when they sell.
Of course, they are taking a risk that this could backfire, with sellers reducing their ad exposure in response to this money grab. But they are willing to take that risk.
wastingtime101
·1 year agoDisclaimer: I'm responding without reading any of the above posts.
I saw the change on eBay Germany and somewhere in the fine print it said "halo" attribution reports will still be available if the .de seller's sales are made on .com or .co.uk which, to me, reads like eBay does not plan on making the change to US or UK.
my-cottage-books-and-antiques
·1 year ago@valueaddedresource I just started my second cup of coffee...so I probably should wait till I've finished that and have more time to assess this. But, my first impression. And rememder, for those following along at home, at present, this applies only to ebay Germany.
There are basically two things here. I'll deal with the easier one first.
The Halo Attribution Rule is NOT going away.
When it was first announced, ebay took great pride in letting us know that our reports would distinguish between direct and halo sales, so that we would have the insights we need to run our ad campaigns.
THAT is what is going away. The reports ebay provides to us will be LESS informative than in the past, because they will no longer distinguish between direct and halo. Of course, ebay will have all that data. ebay will know which sales were the result of a direct sale and which were the result of a halo sale.
ebay will simply no longer share that data with us. ebay will deliberately and unnecessarily keep us in the dark about our own sales. The data is there. ebay is now REFUSING to disclose it to sellers.
There is simply NO WAY this can be construed as an improvement for sellers. Unfortunately, it is in keeping with the trends set by recent changes to Seller Hub reports.
This change is deliberately reducing transparency about our sales. It is an insult to all of us as sellers, and will further reduce trust in the platform. Absolutely shameful.
And, as I noted, Halo attribution is NOT going away. In fact, it will now be "Halo Attribution on Steroids." But that's for another post....
valueaddedresource
OP1 year ago@my-cottage-books-and-antiques look at the FAQs I copied and pasted in the second post here - for Promoted Listings Basic (same as General) cost per sale ads in Germany, it says Direct and Halo attribution will no longer be used for reporting or collecting ad fees.
What happens to attribution for direct sales and halo item sales for campaigns with a base campaign strategy?
Edit to add the caveat that of course that is what Google translate showed me for the English version - original was in German, so take it with at least a little grain of salt. 😂
my-cottage-books-and-antiques
·1 year ago@valueaddedresource
Yes, I read that and do understand that. Which is why I tried to preface my post by saying "this applies only to Germany"
So, to be clear, when I say ebay is taking away this information, I mean on the German site (and yes, for sales made on that site).
I am not assuming it will be coming here, and I'm also not assuming it will not be coming here. I will be posting about the change to the Halo Rule itself, and , again, to be as clear as I can be, what I will write will apply to ebay Germany. So if I say "sellers" or "we" (as in "we sellers") I am referring to GERMAN SITE sales and sellers.
I have absolutely no doubt that ebay will be tracking the sales and identifying them INTERNALLY as halo or direct (or perhaps using direct, halo, and Super Halo, who knows?)....but one way or another, ebay will HAVE the data, but ebay will not SHARE it with sellers (German sellers, German site)
Or am I missing your point? I still haven't had that full second cup of coffee....
chevymontecarlo88
·1 year agoI would be a fan of this. Would make it easier for those who end a campaign without the need to end the listing and relisting it (sell similar) to get rid of the promotion attached to it.
The only verbiage that is concerning is the word, "Possibility".
valueaddedresource
OP1 year ago@chevymontecarlo88 to be clear, those are my words, not eBay's.
eBay's words were: "The item must be advertised with an ad both at the time of the click and at the time of the sale."
valueaddedresource
OP1 year agoThat part about social media sharing could prove particularly important as eBay looks to capitalize on their new partnership with Meta that will allow eBay items to be shown on Facebook Marketplace in Germany, France, and the US.
https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/eBay-to-integrate-with-Facebook-Marketplace/m-p/34871724/highlight/true#M2509662
Many sellers assumed the partnership would be used as a way to push them into using eBay's Offsite Ad cost per click product (and eBay may still go that route as well), but with this new attribution model, at least in Germany they won't need to - once it goes into effect, they'll be able to see immediate additional monetization from many of those Facebook Marketplace clicks if those items are enrolled in Basic/General cost per sale ad campaigns.