Antique possibly French doll, help with signature please
Summary: La discusión gira en torno a una muñeca antigua, posiblemente francesa, y los participantes buscan ayuda para identificar la firma que tiene. tyeldom3 inicia la conversación, y varios contribuyentes, incluidos dr.vankmann5 y kathiec, participan en el intercambio, pero no se presentan detalles específicos sobre la firma o la muñeca en el contenido proporcionado. La discusión parece centrarse en colaborar para obtener más información sobre el posible origen de la muñeca.
I’ve tried everything including Chatgpt. Does anyone recognize this name? Maker or any help at all would be amazing, thank you 😊
13 comments
dr.vankmann5
·2 months agoOne thing you want to remember when it comes to these eBay board like this, you are going to get a lot of people that buy a bunch of dolls that are going to steer you in the wrong direction and then wait for you to post the doll for sale and buy it up from underneath you. Instead of relying on people that have admitted to you that they buy a lot of antique dolls like one self proclaimed expert in here, you should go to the experts that appraise these dolls, never rely on the buyer to tell you how much something is worth, you are setting yourself up for failure when you do that.
kathiec
·4 months ago@albertabrightalberta
Your much sharper than mine eyes have cracked the case! So here's the full story on this doll.
I was correct that this is a reproduction using a 19th century mold. And it was definitely painted by someone not skilled in face painting. But in this case it wasn't a one-off done by a hobbyist. Beulah Markus turned it into a cottage industry in the 70s and 80s, a time before actual doll artists became well-known. I found one article that mentioned her in an old 1970s doll magazine. She lived in Pueblo, CO, had purchased some of the old molds and fired her own heads. She then painted them and made them into dolls, which she cranked out by the dozens. Sadly, Buelah's talents obviously were in areas other than painting dolls.
@tyeldom3
So you're still looking at a badly painted reproduction of a 19th century doll, but at least now you have some further provenance and keywords. Unfortunately if you look at the link alberta provided you see that asking prices for these dolls aren't high. If you look further you also see that there are no Sold listings. These dolls just don't measure up to the standards of current doll artists. And while I'm always loathe to call any doll ugly, the paint job on yours is even worse than the dolls currently listed. So yeah, list her and see how she does. But you eventually might want to donate her to a little girl who will love her no matter how weird her face is. I can guarantee that 99% of doll collectors started out as little girls (and sometimes boys) who loved dolls.
albertabrightalberta
·4 months ago@tyeldom3
The name on the doll is Beulah Markus.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=beulah+markus&_sacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2334524.m570.l1313&_odkw=beaulah+markus&_osacat=0
ETA:
Hmm. I trust @kathiec 's knowledge of dolls. It's very possible that I misread the signature.
kathiec
·4 months ago@tyeldom3
This actually is the right place for this question, as it's about a doll not an autograph.
What you have is a hobbyist reproduction of an antique china doll. The molds for most 19th century china and bisque dolls are now public domain. Many times modern doll artists or hobbyists buy unpainted modern reproductions using those molds, paint them, then use them to put together a doll. In this case it appears the artist, Beulah Marker, went one step further and actually cast the head, signing it before it went in the kiln.
The face painting on the doll is very amateurish, and the clothes and body are all modern. While there's a market for these they're worth a fraction of what an actual antique china would sell for.
tyeldom3
OP4 months agoWow, thank you so much! You are amazingly helpful. 😊😊
dr.vankmann5
·4 months agoThere are actual experts, and when I say experts, I don’t mean somebody that just has a bunch of dolls for sale on eBay, I’m talking about actual auction house owners and people who actually appraise these, more than a dozen actually, that will tell you exactly what you have.
kathiec
·4 months agoYou have no idea who I am or what my expertise is. And since you didn't bother to check, I have no dolls for sale. I've collected dolls, including antique bisque and chinas, for 40 years. So yeah, I actually am an expert, as are many of the people on the Dolls forum. You, on the other hand, are someone merely flapping their gums.
powell-collectibles
·4 months agoI’d take Dr.Vankmann5’s advice on this one. Not saying that there aren’t knowledgeable people on these boards, but I’ve seen some pretty questionable “expert” opinions. If you want to rely on eBay boards for a first pass, that’s best. If you are going to rely on “expert” opinions on these boards, best to find one with selling experience, not just buying. I find that there are a lot of avid buyers that understand a small sliver of the market.
kathiec
·4 months agoThen again there are collectors who just happen to know a lot about the subject. Since doll shows have become few and far between over the last 30 years eBay has become one of the largest sources for vintage and antique dolls. Where the dolls are the collectors are. Then again, I'm sure you wouldn't have chimed in here had I not been the one to respond.
@tyeldom3
You are perfectly welcome to seek out a 'more knowledgeable' opinion. I do hope when it's the same as mine you'll come back and let the naysayers know.
powell-collectibles
·4 months agoI’m not sure if you’re being serious or directing your message at somebody else. I don’t doubt that you have a lot of experience in dolls. I don’t doubt that you are an export or consider yourself to be an expert. I didn’t at all criticize what you wrote – I just suggested to the OP that some expert opinions on these boards are pretty far from expert. If somebody’s gonna make real listing decisions, pricing decisions, etc. based on what some random folks indicate on a message board, that’s a bit of a risk.
dr.vankmann5
·4 months agoNo, it’s not the right place, that online eBay forum that I gave you is what that is for, it’s not just for autographs, but people go on their asking what you’re asking right now and there are actual experts on there that will give you exactly what you’re looking for, Or you could just stay here and talk to a bunch of people that are not experts, it’s up to you. lol
dr.vankmann5
·4 months agoThis is the wrong place for that, there is an online eBay forum that is perfect for what you’re looking for, it’s called
“Autograph Live”
it’s easy to sign up and free.
soh.maryl
·4 months agoWhy/how would an online eBay forum called "Autograph Live" help anyone with a doll identification?