Why does Ebay allow so insanely many sellers with 0 Reviews to put on fake auctions?
Just search for PS5, sort by price and I guarantee the first 30 hits are all from fake accounts.
There are so many ways this can be prevented, but why does Ebay just sit there reactively and wait until someone reports it or a poor fool ordered something from them?
We live in times of AI that can very easily spot the fakes, and still they do absolutely nothing to protect from super obvious fraudulent listings.
I don't get it.
39 comments
kh-sireesha
·4 months agoHi everyone,
Due to the age of this thread, it has been closed to further replies. Please feel free to start a new thread if you wish to continue to discuss this topic.
Thank you for understanding.
pab77777
·4 months agoI recently saw a book on eBay titled "How to Scam eBay Buyers." The guy had over 100 positive reviews.
tiro73
OP2 years agoOk - you all convinced me that
- there are so few fake listings on Ebay that it does not matter and the buyer just needs to pay better attention (and is protected by buyer protection anyways)
- nothing can be done about fake accounts and listings anyway, as they can not possibly be identified
or distinguished from genuine listing
- if scrutiny were applied, Ebay would go out of business
Yeah, this all sounds reasonable enough to close this discussion
eburtonlab
·2 years agothere are so few fake listings on Ebay that it does not matter
No one here is saying that.
and the buyer just needs to pay better attention (and is protected by buyer protection anyways)
If zero feedback sellers are a problem, then noticing whether a seller has zero feedback and then avoiding doing business with that seller would seem to be one sure-fire way for a user to sidestep that particular problem, and one that does not rely on eBay suspending every new seller or otherwise making it impossible for new sellers to list anything.
nothing can be done about fake accounts and listings anyway, as they can not possibly be identified or distinguished from genuine listing
Removing fake listings and suspending scam accounts can certainly be done by eBay, but not instantaneously, and likely not before some users encounter those listings and have an opportunity to be scammed. More to the point, when a scammer's listing is removed or an account is suspended, the typical scammer does not just give up at that point and decide to become a model citizen instead. The typical scammer keeps listing scams using different scam accounts. So no matter how proactive eBay is, as long as eBay allows any sellers to list their items, there is always a potential for a scam item to be listed, however briefly it appears. Users should understand that, and act appropriately to protect their interests.
soh.maryl
·2 years agoIf you can easily spot the fakes, then we have to assume that you don't buy from them, right?
And, any time any buyer does purchase from one of these sellers and the transaction goes south, the buyer (the poor fool) has the protection of the MBG. You know about that, right?
stainlessenginecovers
·2 years agoYou seem to talk a good game- so tell us; how can this be prevented? (and no, the 'blocking' of ZERO sellers OR Buyers was NEVER a thing)
tiro73
OP2 years agoThree options, i am sure there are more:
- restrict sellers with 0 reviews, 0 purchase or sale history and a recently (3-6 months) opened account without any activity to sell items under a certain threshold (50 bucks?) or even sell at all. You say it that never a thing? Other auction platforms in other countries restrict anyone from selling without at least one purchase transaction to verify identity and address. works.
- allow buyers to search with filters including seller criteria that include ratings, account openening duration, xyz
- mandatory due diligence performed by ebay for listings that match suspicious criteria. Again, most of this can be automated. Criteria: You find them further up in the thread.
I appreciate all the responses received so far, even if we are not always agreeing. What you may have missed is that most of these listings are effortlessly auto generated. It's not about the poor guy that wants to sell its Iphone - it is about systematically launching fraudulent listings on this platform with intent to scam. If you think that doesn't happen, I can point to lots. And apparently it suits Ebay, otherwise they would address it.
kensgiftshop
·2 years agoIt does happen, but it's not as easy as it used to be.
New sellers can have their fund held for 30 days, so it's not like they can get the money and run.
Plus they have to provide a checking account and their SSN before they could get paid.
stainlessenginecovers
·2 years agoSo simply a bunch of systems to NOT allow this site to grow and NOT allow 'first time users' to NEVER be a first time user?
Then the site will just die in a few years, a decade or? with that thought process.
Therefore, those are NOT valid 'ways' to do this.
Never gonna happen (and thankfully, shouldn't)
tiro73
OP2 years agoi probably would! you mean like buying the phone and then returning a completely different one or pretending it never arrived? These are no doubt cases impossible to spot in advance.
Not sure if that is still a listing option, but I recall you were able to disallow 0 rating or sellers with negative ratings from bidding on your auction though, at least reducing the risk.
bonjourami
·2 years ago"Not sure if that is still a listing option, but I recall you were able to disallow 0 rating or sellers with negative ratings from bidding on your auction though, at least reducing the risk."
Those were never options,not in the 25 years Ive sold here.. you can set your preferences to block buyers with two or more unpaid items thats all.That would be counter intuitive for Ebay to allow zero fb buyers from bidding, they encourage new members.
tiro73
OP2 years agoI am also 25 years here, and yes they were.
bonjourami
·2 years ago"I am also 25 years here, and yes they were"
You are mistaken.
kathiec
·2 years agoI'm 27 years here, and no, they weren't.
bonjourami
·2 years ago"Just search for PS5, sort by price and I guarantee the first 30 hits are all from fake accounts.
There are so many ways this can be prevented, but why does Ebay just sit there reactively and wait until someone reports it or a poor fool ordered something from them?"
You do realize that with these zero accounts that the sellers funds will be held for up to thirty days? Certainly plenty of time for a buyer to file an inr case and be instantly refunded.When that happens, the seller will be suspended. With almost two biillion listings on this site, and thousands more going up every month,there is no way Ebay can police for 'fake accounts'.
ittybitnot
·2 years agoCertainly plenty of time for a buyer to file an inr case and be instantly refunded.
@bonjourami
Tell that to a buyer that is a victim of the "Fake Tracking Scam". The Money Back Guarantee is guaranteed to be a FAIL. For a Zero or low feedback user, or dormant accounts, you can't even get to the page to see. There will be no "see all feedback" link.
tiro73
OP2 years agoof course they can if they wanted to! How much data do you think google is processing per second? The tools and technology is commodity today, and last time I looked Ebay is still a technology company. You are right though, that you typically get refunded quickly, but why even let it get there? Also diluging the "real" listings with all that fake is offensive to anyone who is genuinely interested in selling something.
bonjourami
·2 years agoI dont know that those are 'fake' listings, and neither do you. Ebay has one of the most stringent buyer protection criteria on the internet,so buyers are protected. Im not sure these listings are 'offensive'.But since you are so offended by them,you can report them, not that that will do any good.It takes more than one report to have a listing removed. Ive been selling here for twenty five years, and as far as I know, Ebay has never
'policed' their listings. Good luck.
tiro73
OP2 years agoit is not my job to look through listings to spot fraudulence. It's Ebay's job - at least it should be, and they are not doing it, as far as I am concerned.
eburtonlab
·2 years agoit is not my job to look through listings to spot fraudulence.
Not even for the listings you intend to purchase with your own money?
If you are not willing to look out for your own interests, who else will?
I think eBay does more than you think to stop some fraudulent listings, but I would never consider relying entirely on eBay to vet sellers for me without doing my own vetting for myself.
You think eBay is doing much less vetting than I think eBay is doing, yet you rely on eBay's inadequate vetting more than I do?
If you think eBay is not doing enough, then it is that much more incumbent on you to do that vetting yourself.
bonjourami
·2 years agoI think every buyer who bids on items with terrible feedbacks for that seller has to take some responsibility for not doing their due diligence.If people would stop making those foolish decisions, these sellers would soon be out of business here.But Im sure that will never happen. Is Ebay going to hold your hand like Mama and guide you thru Ebay listings? Heck, no...because you cant save some people from themselves.
tiro73
OP2 years agoof course i do it for the things I want to buy and I never said I am relying on Ebay or anyone else to do that. But I do get really annoyed how much time I need to spend to do it, which triggered this whole thread. If i can spot it easily, an Ai can spot it even easier. And for those that pop up as suspicious - so is a little automated routine address check that could result in blocking an account.
bonjourami
·2 years ago"it is not my job to look through listings to spot fraudulence. It's Ebay's job - at least it should be, and they are not doing it, as far as I am concerned."
Sorry, you kind of sounded like it was your job, LOL.
mr_lincoln
·2 years agoHi @tiro73
Please explain how you determine an account is "fake". I searched PS5s and found three accounts with (0) Feedback, all the rest had higher FB counts and several were in the thousands.
If you are looking for one to Buy never hesitate to message Sellers and ask polite questions. Responsible Sellers will reply in kind.
tobaccocardyahoo
·2 years agoThere are many people who are hurting financially who have decided to try to make some money by selling on Ebay. They are indistinguishable when they start from the accounts you think are fake.
They are often ripped off by unscrupulous buyers.
eburtonlab
·2 years agoUnfortunately, AI cannot reliably detect fraudulent intent based solely on the content of an item listing.
Observant folks may be able to notice certain patterns, though, and develop a "gut feeling".
But eBay cannot remove a listing or penalize a seller based only on a "gut feeling"; eBay has a much higher bar to clear to take any action, compared to a buyer that can simply choose to walk away from a potential purchase and avoid a problem entirely. As a result, eBay tends to be reactive rather than proactive compared to cautious buyers that do not have to explain or justify a decision not to make a purchase or to purchase elsewhere.
It is still possible to report listings and contact eBay and even to speak with a human, but once again, eBay will rarely take action based on a user's "gut feeling".
Buyers should not rely entirely on eBay to prevent all scammers from listing scam items. That is just not feasible. Some scam listings are just exact copies of legitimate listings, after all. Many scams are only obvious in retrospect, when items fail to arrive after a shipping deadline, though scams are not the only reasons why some items do not arrive.
Nor should buyers assume that all sellers are equivalent in their performance just because the seller is able to list on eBay. Many sellers may not be scammers at all, and in fact may be totally honest and earnest in all their dealings, and yet may still be worth avoiding entirely for other reasons, such as lack of experience or lack of competence.
Buyers should do their own due diligence and decide for themselves when a deal is "too good to be true", or whether a seller that has little or no experience selling similar items, that is registered in another country and is apparently engaged in drop-shipping (at best) is worth doing business with at all, or whether it makes more sense to purchase instead from an experienced domestic seller with a proven track record of delivering what was advertised.
Buyers still have eBay's money back guarantee to fall back on when a seller fails to fulfill the terms of the deal, and once a seller has a certain number of valid cases decided for items "not received" or "not as described", eBay will take action, even if it is not as quickly as you or I would prefer.
kensgiftshop
·2 years agoHow do you know they are fake accounts?
Everyone starts at zero.
New sellers sign up all the time and yes, some might be up to no good, but there are some good new sellers.
Unavailable member
·2 years agoI want to know, how would you know those are fake accounts?
eBay couldn't possibly monitor the tens of thousands of listings posted and whether or not the account is fake.
tiro73
OP2 years agovery easy:
0 reviews, no purchase or sell history.
pictures copied from other listing
price typically below other listings
eburtonlab
·2 years ago0 reviews, no purchase or sell history.
pictures copied from other listing
price typically below other listings
Taken together those are indications of a listing that buyers would be wise to avoid buying, but not necessarily enough justification for eBay to suspend a seller or to remove a listing.
tiro73
OP2 years agoyeah, that is where we disagree
Unavailable member
·2 years agoYou're entitled to your opinion.
tiro73
OP2 years agoso are you and i respect that. We are clearly not on the same page what Ebay can do better to protect their buyers. In any case I am pretty sure that neither you or me or anyone else starting fresh on ebay launches a 300+ dollar item sale as their first trial though. Can't agree with that argument
bonjourami
·2 years ago"case I am pretty sure that neither you or me or anyone else starting fresh on ebay launches a 300+ dollar item sale as their first trial though. Can't agree with that argument"
Yes, they do...all the time! Regulars are on the boards have always marveled that Ebay allowed newbies to list expensive items..sometimes much more than $300.
kensgiftshop
·2 years agoYou would be surprised how many sign up just to sell their iPhones or laptops and get scammed by buyers.
Unavailable member
·2 years agoCopying pictures on eBay is an acceptable practice.
All new sellers as well as buyers start with zero feedback no buying or selling history, that includes both you and me and everyone else on eBay.
If the price is below other listings, that seller either wants to make a little money or they don't know what the going price is for the item they are selling.
So again, your not providing sufficient evidence they are fake.
ittybitnot
·2 years agovery easy:
0 reviews, no purchase or sell history.
pictures copied from other listing
price typically below other listings
@tiro73
Your list is too short.
I would include "newbie" selling product(s) with a price(s) way beyond the usual Buyer Limits
Dormant buyer account that is suddenly selling the same as above
A seller of used children's clothes also selling high priced IPhones along with the baby booties
Products listed in a wrong category that has no money back guarantee
Products listed in two categories, one which has no MBG which voids it altogether
Country of origin (which you can't even see on a Zero or dormant account unless you know how)
Revision history....usually does not show up right away, but if you start watching, it is not unusual to find a product that was once a listing for a wooden spoon, changed to that of the latest high end camera with the same item number.
I am sure there are more. I always figured if "I" could find these with limited resources, so could eBay if they wanted to do so. As someone stated, eBay tends to reactive instead of proactive.
tiro73
OP2 years agoyou and I are thinking the exact same way. I concluded that Ebay has more interest in bolstering the amount of listings than protecting their buyers.
kensgiftshop
·2 years ago