Triangulation scheme - how to report to eBay?
Summary: roxp described purchasing an item from a seller at a discounted price, which was shipped directly from the retailer, Williams-Sonoma, and suspected it was part of a triangulation scheme involving stolen credit cards. roxp expressed frustration with the lack of a reporting mechanism on eBay for such fraud. bonanza125 and 1786davycrockett questioned the assumptions, suggesting a need for evidence. kathiec provided a way to report the seller. The discussion also included experiences shared by others, noting that triangulation fraud is known but often ignored by platforms due to financial incentives. The conversation highlighted a lack of consensus on whether eBay's reporting tools are effective or sufficient for such complex scams.
I purchased an item from a seller that was about 25% off the retail price. They provided a tracking number that didn't work. The item did show up, but it came directly from the retailer (Williams-Sonoma), which didn't make sense because that item never goes on sale
After some digging, I realized that they were laundering money. In short, I purchase an item for $150 and they then purchase it for full price ($200) using stolen credit cards on the retailer's website. They don't care that they paid more than they received for the item because they have my $150 and spent $0 of their own on the item
The same thing happened to me earlier this year (different seller) but I didn't realize anything shifty was going on until it happened again recently. I received the item I had purchased so technically I'm whole, but it pisses me off that they're using stolen cards to do this
Is it possible to report the seller? I can't find the option anywhere on eBay
profitweb
·1 week ago@roxp If this only had happened once, I'd chalk it up to seller being out of stock but getting it fulfilled rather than taking a strike on their eBay account and disappointing a buyer. I have done that.
However, if you're sure it's not that (more frequent than one time happening), you should report it to the Federal Government. Not eBay.
U.S. Federal authorities like the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN) and the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) handle this. You can Google their names to get the official submission form(s) and "Tip" hotlines.
I hate money laundering!!! If you really feel it must be that, I encourage you to report it.
mudshark61369
·1 week ago · Edited@roxp ,
Your name may have been used as part of a Triangulation scam, but even if you reported the seller, ebay could probably not verify your report. All they did was to provide a platform for the listing to be posted. The account used for listing, had to be verified and used for selling so that the scammer could have the funds moved into their account quickly. New accounts have a hold placed on the payments they receive.
What you really want to worry about is your info having been used to create a Triangulation scam account with Williams Sonoma. If you did get a W.S. receipt and it is a gift receipt that probably did not happen.
Before trying to contact ebay, it would be better to contact W.S.. If you do a Google search for Williams Sonoma Fraud Dept. The A.I. article provides a phone number to report Unauthorized charges or Identity compromise. Since the seller has no way of getting your card info, you want check to see if your identity was used to create an account that was used, to make purchases. Or was just used by the scammer who used possibly stolen CC info to make the purchase.
The way a triangulation scam works is the Scammer using stolen CC info has to make the purchase before a card is reported as lost/stolen. The charges would then be reported as unauthorized only after the info submitted to W.S.. But your address may be blacklisted By W.S. and possibly other online retailers.
If you call W.S. you want to have their receipt and a copy/screen shot your order details handy. You want to tell them you feel your info was used in a triangulation scam and tell them you can provide them proof that you bought the item from an ebay seller who may have used your info as part of a triangulation scam.
mudshark61369
·1 week ago@roxp ,
I almost completely for got to add that once you have proof , preferably written, from W.S. of the seller being part of a scam, you can go to the Security center Button at the bottom of ebay pages and report the seller. There should be some way to add the info you have or get to the report.
christworks
·1 week ago@roxp How do you know the card they used is stolen?
Did someone from eBay tell you this?
Did someone from LE contact you?
Did someone from Williams-Sonoma inform you of this?
You've made serious allegations about sellers committing a criminal act. You assert this against not only one, but two sellers, so I would expect you to have some type of direct knowledge. The fact that something does not go on sale is not proof as I can come up with a couple of different equally (if not more likely) plausible things that may have happened.
roxp
OP1 week agoBOTH packages arrived from the original retailer, which alone is a violation of eBay's T&C. The most recent one was addressed to someone else. The tracking numbers provided by the sellers were bogus. ALL of the photos on both sellers' profiles were snagged from the original retailers.
It's a common scam, unfortunately
https://complyadvantage.com/insights/what-is-triangulation-fraud/
participatrophy
·1 week agoWas there a receipt in the box? Did William Sonoma print the invoice or include a packing slip or anything like that?
roxp
OP1 week agoYes, Williams-Sonoma included the packing slip
trishrg
·1 week agoFirst post here. Found this right away because I'm dealing with the exact same thing, and I searched for Triangulation. Yes, it's a real thing, and yes, it appears to be running rampant on Ebay, and they make it impossible to "report" it
bonanza125
·1 week agoIt's possible to report it the issue for you would be Ebay would need evidence which supports the claim which there is no evidence just you as a buyer saying it is. That's not enough for Ebay to remove the seller. Any action against a seller will not be disclosed to anybody. So nobody will know what or if anything happens down the road.
roxp
OP1 week agoUnfortunately, I can't find a place to report seller fraud. eBay provides options for "not the item I ordered", "didn't arrive", etc., but not for things that are more complex —such as drop-shipping
trishrg
·1 week agoHaving an item delivered in a walmart bag with walmart delivery does seem like this is specifically prohibited. Hey, I got a great deal on a few items, so I don't want to return them, but whose potentially stolen credit card was used to source the purchase is what I wonder? And since items were delivered to my address, not a good look for me.
kalyoth
·1 week agoI think your using too many Vapes. Please calm down. There is no conspiracy. Criminal behavior gets caught eventually. Are you willing to be not only out the item but also the money because of the investigation your reporting to the police?
roxp
OP1 week agoI didn’t say it was a conspiracy. I said it was money laundering. The seller’s profile only uses stock photos from the retailers’ (plural) websites. They are drop shipping, which is in violation of eBay’s T&C.
christworks
·1 week agoDropshipping is not a criminal act. Dropshipping does not equate to money laundering.
bonanza125
·1 week agoGreat point
kalyoth
·1 week agoOnly if you can prove they are not an approved drop ship reseller on ebay which is also in the T&C...
1786davycrockett
·1 week ago@roxp
What you are describing makes no logical sense.
If someone had "stolen" credit cards, wouldn't it make more sense to make a purchase for something that the thief could actually use for themselves, rather than to purchase something that was unusable to the thief, and then attempt to sell it (at some unknown point in the future) on eBay?
Keep in mind that the "thief" would also be responsible for any associated fees from the sale -- so the "profit" would be less than $50.00.
Additionally -- why would such a thief make a purchase at Williams-Sonoma for a somewhat esoteric item, when the same thief could make a purchase for some item which the vast majority of buyers on eBay use everyday, and which would turn over faster?
Your "thief" may actually just be a Williams-Sonoma employee, selling an item on eBay which they purchased using their employee discount -- happens regularly at most B&M stores.
adamcartwright
·1 week agoThis can definitely be a way to launder stolen credit cards or gift cards.
There have been many discussions on this board about people suspecting other sellers of doing this -- most recently a discussion about a seller shipping bottled water using a Walmart + account at below retail prices.
roxp
OP1 week agoThey don’t purchase items for themselves because the money could be traced back to them, whether the purchase was made online or in person
To be honest, the whole scam is genius. They collect money from the ebay sales based on delivering a product that they purchase using stolen credit cards. When/if eBay catches them, they simply open up another profile
The seller’s profile is full of stock photos from many unrelated retailers’ websites, so it’s not an employee discount situation
valueaddedresource
·1 week ago · EditedYou seem to have missed the part where they use a stolen credit card so they aren't actually paying anything for the item from Williams-Sonoma.
Assuming ~13% fees, an account committing triangulation fraud would probably get about $130 in profit from that $150 sale, since their cost of goods is $0.
And yes, fraudulent accounts will absolutely pay eBay those fees as a "cost of doing business" to keep this kind of scam going.
Source: my own personal experience in 2020 when the company I worked for was hit by triangulation fraud facilitated through eBay to the tune of ~$160K across ~4,000 orders in a 4 month span.
I reported it directly to eBay's PROACT (Partnering with Retailers Offensively Against Crime and Theft) department and offered to provide 4,000 tracking numbers they could used to trace back in their systems to find every account involved - eBay literally said thanks but no thanks and then ghosted me.
Keep in mind, the company I worked for not only had a direct website (where the fraudulent orders were being placed), it also sold ~$2 Million worth of product on eBay annually and was the 3rd largest seller in that product category at the time.
I spoke to our category manager about it and he candidly admitted to me eBay had known about this kind of fraud for years, he was not surprised at over $100K in losses, and he personally knew of several even larger accounts who had left the platform after being targeted by this kind of fraud.
When I asked him why eBay doesn't do more to stop it, he said they were working on it but "eBay is a big ship and it takes a long time to turn it around" - to which I responded "that's what they said about Titanic and we know how that turned out."
That fraud was actually the catalyst that started my posting here in the community back in 2020 but unfortunately those posts didn't get migrated over to the new boards.
If you're still skeptical, I'd suggest doing a web search for a 2015 article by Brian Krebs called How Carders Can Use eBay as a Virtual ATM - it actually contains a diagram explaining how this fraud works which came directly from an eBay help page at that time.
Or if video is more your style, look for Confessions of an Nespresso Money Mule on YouTube to see Dr. Nina Kollars , an Associate Professor at the U.S. Naval War College's Cyber and Innovation Policy Institute, describe her experience with triangulation fraud on eBay as a buyer.
roxp
OP1 week agoThanks for chiming in, @valueaddedresource . The number of people here who are naysaying this is truly baffling. It's disappointing that eBay can't do more about it. At the end of the day, both businesses and consumers are paying the price
valueaddedresource
·1 week agoOh eBay absolutely can do more about it - they just choose not to.
And for anyone who would wonder why, not only does eBay make fee revenue on those transactions, they boost Gross Merchandise Volume (GMV) on quarterly earnings reports.
eBay defines GMV as: “The total value of all paid transactions between users on our Marketplace platforms during the applicable period, inclusive of shipping fees and taxes, without adjustment for returns or cancellations.”
GMV is a very important number for eBay's financial reports - generally speaking showing GMV growth is good for the stock price while flat or falling GMV is not so good for the stock price.
Since GMV counts as soon as an order is paid, and isn't deducted if that order is later canceled or returned/refunded, eBay has financial incentive to turn a blind eye to all kinds of fraud and illegal activity on their platform - including but not limited to triangulation fraud.
shire123
·1 week agoHow do you know that they were laundering money? Please explain the process so maybe we too, can check things out when this happens to us.
stainlessenginecovers
·1 week ago@shire123 OP already explained it but they are also just 'guessing' what is going on. No proof whatsoever.
roxp
OP1 week agoIt’s fairly obvious that this is what’s happening. There really isn’t another logical explanation
roxp
OP1 week agoI didn’t realize what was going on until I started digging into it a bit
The tracking number provided by the seller didn’t work at all, and when I asked them about it they took days to answer and even then didn’t answer the question
The package arrived directly from Williams-Sonoma and was addressed to an “Edward Leigh”. It contained the item I ordered plus another random item
I was confused as to how I could possibly pay $150 for a $200 item when it came directly from the retailer (Williams-Sonoma)—there’s no way Williams-Sonoma would be drop shipping for some random seller on eBay
When I googled it, that’s when I learned about triangulation schemes
https://www.google.com/search?q=triangulatio+schem&rlz=1C9BKJA_enUS833US834&oq=triangulatio+schem&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIJCAEQABgNGIAEMgYIAhBFGDwyBggDEEUYPDIGCAQQRRg8MggIBRAAGA0YHjIICAYQABgNGB4yCAgHEAAYDRgeMggICBAAGA0YHjIICAkQABgNGB7SAQgzNjY3ajBqOagCE7ACAeIDBBgBIF_xBQiElD_vuU4_8QUIhJQ_77lOPw&hl=en-US&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#lfId=ChxjMe
janet9988
·1 week agoFile an item not as described claim for the random item you were sent.
kathiec
·1 week agoYou can report the seller here. Select "Suspicious seller activity". That will take you to a page where you can describe the activity.
roxp
OP1 week agoThanks! I reported it and received an AI response. I guess eBay just washes their hands of it
bonanza125
·1 week agoThere is no information given that proves what you are claiming. Even if you report the issue do not expect anything to come from it. If there were to be an issue the card holder would report the issue and Ebay will take action at that time. My suggestion is just let it be and enjoy the item you got. Unless you didn't receive an item or the item isn't as described I wouldn't worry about stuff that might be happening.
roxp
OP1 week agoThe stolen card was used at Williams-Sonoma. The seller makes their money off of selling the item to me, thus the “triangulation”. It’s a brilliant money laundering scheme, but that type of crap is what causes prices to go up for all of us :(
bonanza125
·1 week ago · EditedThat doesn't mean a stolen card was used at Williams-Sonoma. All personal information is private from the buyer (you). So right now you are making an assumption. Buyer sells item on Ebay. Buyer purchases item from a company and has it shipped to you. That's the only evidence you can provide.
1786davycrockett
·1 week ago@roxp "The stolen card was used at Williams-Sonoma. The seller makes their money off of selling the item to me, thus the “triangulation”. It’s a brilliant money laundering scheme, but that type of crap is what causes prices to go up for all of us :("
If you really are that upset about this alleged "triangulation" con, then you will also have to admit your participation as a recipient of stolen goods.
Under those circumstances, it is your responsibility to return the item to the nearest Williams-Sonoma retailer; and, understandably, you should realize that you will not be compensated for keeping stolen goods.
Imagine how much better you'll feel, having returned "stolen goods" to the rightful owner.
Let us know how that works out. . ..