Some sellers are really just bad business people
Summary: maysherip expressed frustration about a seller denying a cancellation request for a $15 item, prompting various responses. Some participants discussed the human tendency to hold onto small values and the nature of e-commerce business. christworks shared insights about not always honoring cancellation requests to potentially increase profits, which sparked debate on seller responsibilities and buyer behavior. The conversation also touched on eBay's feedback policies and the challenges faced by both buyers and sellers in managing transactions.
Purchased a low cost item this evening and immediately realized that I had purchased it already at that big box place. Within the same minute I did a request to cancel and not 30 seconds I get both a confirmation of my purchase then the denial of my return request.
for a $15 item. How desperate are these people?
annadryl
·2 months agoIf a buyer is pretty absent-minded in the first place (and they all say it was immediately requested) most sellers would gladly cancel. No need for further dementia-related problems down the line. They may not, but it may not be out of desperation for a few bucks.
Maybe they were away from the keyboard for that less than a minute?
tobaccocardyahoo
·2 months agoYes, some sellers are not good business people. Some sellers are not business people at all. Other sellers are not good people.
gosimus
·3 months ago · Edited@maysherip
The following is off topic, but I think it's something you should know.
You have left a lot of negative feedback in which you referred to eBay activity. One example, "after I filed a case with eBay. . ." You're lucky that all those sellers were unaware that mentioning eBay actions in a feedback is prohibited. If they'd known they could report violations, they could have got the negs removed. Maybe they still could.
kathiec
·3 months agoInterestingly I can find no place in the current feedback policy that mentions this. I thought it odd since it was prohibited for so long. Perhaps I just missed it and someone with sharper eyes and a longer attention span can find it. 🙂
https://export.ebay.com/en/fees-regulations-policies/ebay-policies/feedback-policy/
gosimus
·3 months ago@kathiec
Interesting indeed. Nor can I, now. It seems that they've been tinkering with the language in the policy pages again. After I despaired of finding it the way I remembered it, I asked google A.I. to find it for me and the response is copied/pasted below.
The Core Policy: Mentions of "eBay Investigations"
Older versions of the official text explicitly banned "any reference to an eBay or law enforcement organization investigation."
When a buyer opens an eBay Money Back Guarantee dispute, it initiates an internal eBay investigation and ruling.
Leaving feedback that states, "Seller refused refund but eBay stepped in and forced it," directly comments on an internal eBay dispute investigation. Because it references corporate intervention rather than the actual transaction or seller service, it qualifies for text removal.
The Modern Rule: "Irrelevant or Meaningless" Text
In recent site updates, eBay consolidated many niche text restrictions into a broad umbrella clause on the main eBay Feedback Policy Page.
Under the removal criteria, eBay explicitly states it will delete text that is "inappropriate or irrelevant" to the actual purchase of the item.
eBay customer service representatives and automated AI removal systems treat commentary about administrative actions (such as arbitration, payment disputes, or customer service tickets) as strictly irrelevant to the product/service review.
kathiec
·3 months agoInteresting. I'd be curious to find out how, or if, that's being enforced IRL.
christworks
·3 months agoI doubt often becuase it seems like many sellers do not know they can appeal negative feedback, or they do not know how to do it correctly. Some may just not care. I'd have a hard time letting one slide that I know I could get removed, but there are volume sellers who amass dozens a month and they keep trucking along just fine.
robot-hands
·2 months agoWhen I see those sellers with tons of sales and tons of bad feedback, I have to assume that it is a bulk churner and people are getting paid to list, pack and ship and nothing else.
christworks
·2 months ago@robot-hands That's it. Their method only works because they keep the volume up, and they are willing to accept a certain percentage of unhappy buyers. I understand it. I'm not sure I would want to run that type of operation. I do not expect all buyers to be happy. I'm definitely not a people pleaser. But If I mess up, I would not sleep well knowing I didn't make it right.
maysherip
OP2 months agoLOL!!!
Everyday I see others that have mentioned eBay’s interaction. And those sellers deserved every word.
monroe67
·3 months ago"Some [eBay] sellers are really just bad business people."
eBay was never intended to be a place for experienced "business people" who run national or global retail operations to sell their wares.
It's a place where everyday-people can try to sell their stuff. I'm one of many everyday-people, an aging person, who is trying to clear out their spare rooms by selling their lifelong collection of, well, everything.
There are times when, yes, I am almost desperate to keep your $15.00.
About eBay, though, "bonanza125" is right.
You purchased on eBay. eBay and your (eBay-experienced) seller expect you to honor your commitment to purchase that item.
bonanza125
·3 months agoHas nothing to do with being desperate. When you make a purchase you agreed to terms and follow through with that transaction. The seller isn't required to cancel the transaction. Now it is recommended for the seller to cancel and refund due to a possibility of a return which costs the seller money but they do have the right to cancel your request.
maysherip
OP3 months agoI sell. It doesn’t cost the seller if he cancels and chooses “at seller request.”
Of course I completely understand that I entered into the contract, why do you feel the need to make such an overwhelmingly OBVIOUS comment unless it was to make yourself feel smart.
kathiec
·3 months ago@maysherip
You certainly don't appear to understand you entered into a contract since you seem so bent out of shape that you weren't allowed to breach said contract.
bonanza125
·3 months ago · EditedWell you are the one creating this thread complaining about how a seller is refusing to cancel out your transaction. So it's pointless to complain about something you claim now you already know the answers to then clap back at every comment where this community is giving helpful advice for literally no reason because you already know. Ok you are a seller. So am I. Not all sellers will honor a buyers request to cancel. There is no violation.
robot-hands
·3 months agoOf course it costs the seller money to cancel.
It costs them the entire sale.
janet9988
·2 months agoAt sellers request?????
So you want the seller to receive a defect for your mistake?
YOU are the problem.
msha3839
·3 months agoInteresting, but you never criticized yourself for making mistake by realizing that you purchased this item already..for a $15 item you sound desperate..🧐
kibble-net
·3 months agoSome sellers want to be their buyer's advocate.
Some sellers want to be their buyer's adversary.
janet9988
·3 months agoYou can not return something you do not even have.
maysherip
OP3 months agoPlease read. I asked to cancel, not return.
janet9988
·3 months agoPurchased a low cost item this evening and immediately realized that I had purchased it already at that big box place. Within the same minute I did a request to cancel and not 30 seconds I get both a confirmation of my purchase then the denial of my return request.
christworks
·3 months agoIn your original post you stated you wanted to return. You then edited your post when it was pointed out.
christworks
·3 months ago@maysherip eBay expects both sellers and buyers to honor the contract they make when a sale happens. eBay allows you to request a cancellation. Sellers do not have to honor that request.
For years it has generally been recommended that sellers honor the cancellation request. It makes sense, after all. Why send someone something they no longer want? They will just return it, right? I've said all of that myself.
I'm on a mission to challenge that line of thinking though. I made a commitment on this board a couple months ago that the next cancellation I received, I would not honor the request and we'd all follow along to see what happens. A few weeks ago I did get a cancel request. For the first time in a couple of years the buyer selected there was an issue with the address and they followed up about that issue in a message to me. I honored that cancellation request, the buyer did rebuy the item with the right address. That was not a good one to test on.
Then, just a few days ago, I received another cancellation request. I was going to use this one as my test, but it was an international buyer. As a seller enrolled in eBay International Shipping, it would make little sense to cancel the order because eBay handles all EIS returns. I did not honor the cancellation request, but what happens really does not matter as the buyer will be dealing with eBay should they open a return and I'm not sure I'll even know if they do.
Maybe the next cancellation request will be someone selecting "Ordered by mistake." Whenever that happens I won't be honoring the cancellation request. The buyer can certainly open the return, but 40% of returns that are opened are never sent back, meaning I keep the sale. I'm hedging my bets that by refusing to honor cancellation requests, I'll keep more sales and thus increase my profit.
soh.maryl
·3 months agoSo you don't feel that refusing to honor cancellation requests will increase the number of item not as described cases you will receive?
msha3839
·3 months agoNot in this case..OP’s request to cancel simply proves buyer’s remorse and future request for INAD will work against buyer..
soh.maryl
·3 months agoCan you explain this statement: ". . . and future request for INAD will work against buyer". ??
msha3839
·3 months ago · EditedOk. If OP sent message to seller that he bought item by mistake because he already bought one but forgot, later when item received and OP tries to file for return under not as described to receive free label, seller can/will point to original cancellation request..🥃
jonathanbrightlight
·2 months agoLikely unsuccessfully, though, as we've all seen.
christworks
·3 months ago@soh.maryl I offer free returns, so there is no reason to open up an INAD. If a buyer does that, I'll treat them like I would any other buyer who lies about the return reason: I will report them and I will take 50% of their money when I issue the refund. I'll then resell the item and make more money than had I only sold it one time.
grann-4629
·2 months agoSounds like you figured out how to get rich by hosing buyers that don't know the rules.
christworks
·2 months agoThe only person at fault for not knowing the rules is the buyer.
soh.maryl
·3 months agoJust curious: How do you know that 40% of returns that are opened are never sent back?
maysherip
OP3 months agoHe doesn’t but it sounds cool.
christworks
·3 months agoNo, I actually do know my own numbers.
I don't need to sound cool. I am cool.
soh.maryl
·3 months agoSo 40% of the return requests that you receive are never followed through? And you feel that this has to be the case for everyone?
christworks
·3 months ago@soh.maryl Roughly 40% of returns that are opened are never sent back, correct. I do not issue any refund without getting the item back, even if it means I take a loss and even if it is a damage situation (very rare).
The only time I would issue a refund and not take the item back would be if I sent the wrong item. I'd issue a full refund, and send out the correct item and let the buyer keep whatever it was I sent them. I've not done that in two years. The reason why I would handle it this way is because it is my mess up. I owe it to the buyer to make it right and fast, not force them to jump through hoops to return something and delay further them receving the correct item. I have a good SKU system in place now so that type of mistake is highly unlikely.
Do I feel 40% is the case for everyone? No. I never said that nor I did suggest it.
What I said was the common advice given by everybody - including myself - has been to always honor a cancellation request. Is that the right advice? I don't know, because to my knowledge nobody that posts here has not talked about doing that. I get annoyed at cancellation requests, especially when people select "Ordered By Mistake." How do you order something by mistake?
One of the worse things a seller can do is cancel an order for being out of stock or the item being damaged. I think buyers should be held to high stadard as well, because when you buy on eBay you enter into an agreement that eBay and the seller expect you to honor. eBay does not hold buyers to that high standard, but they give sellers the option to do just that. I think sellers should push back, and that is what I intended to do because my own numbers tell me that only 60% of buyers who open a return send it back. Of the buyers who ask to cancel and I refuse, it is highly unlikely that all of them in a given year would open a return. Depending on the item, some may keep it and give it to someone for Christmas or birthday. That would be a sale I saved by refusing to cancel. Of the ones who decide to open returns, it might be 70% return them. I don't know. That's the whole point of changing this up and finding out what happens.
Returns cost me money, but if I save enough sales I might offset the return loss and net an overall profit on sales of orders that would have otherwise been cancelled.
As I said, I did that with an international order last week. It would have been silly of me to honor the cancellation request and give up a $60 sale because I'm enrolled in eBay International Shipping. If the buyer does return it, eBay will handle it and refund them. I keep the sale. That's not really a good test example for that reason.
broto_64
·3 months agoSounds about right, all you have to do is track your returns, I have had many a buyer who never shipped the item back and I kept the money.
christworks
·3 months agoBecause I am a smart businessman who tracks and knows his numbers.
grann-4629
·2 months agoTake 10 push-ups and give yourself a pat on the head. 😎
broto_64
·3 months ago · EditedYou are not entirely wrong, I like the way you're thinking, for me it will also depend on the specific reason but also the item and specifically the shipping cost... As in I'll be more likely to decline the request on common low cost items than rare or high cost ones.
Mostly because I want to deflect the potential irate buyer who will then damage my item as they return it INAD since I didn't honor their cancellation request.
christworks
·3 months agoI think line of thinking still assumes something we don't know. Do the buyers damage something on purpose? I would argue that is a risk regardless.
broto_64
·3 months agoI believe the risk is higher with uncooperative sellers, however I could be wrong, it may be worth running the numbers on this.
christworks
·3 months agoThat is the point of trying to see what happens. Just remember, if something comes back damaged, I'll be deducing 50% of the refund and my margins are such that I'll make money anyway. It is still ultimately the buyer who loses.
broto_64
·3 months agoI have been down this road, I have the ability to withhold a part of the refund too, but I don't always do that anymore... That's what I mean by running the figures, you actually have to go through it and hope you make it out the other end unscathed.
christworks
·3 months agoYou just withhold enough to cover the loss of the fees. You can do that and stay within eBay policy.
eBay gives you guidence on how much to deduct, but it is a guideline and it is not mandatory for you to follow it. If a new item comes back opened, I'm taking 30%. If it has scratches, I'm taking 50%. If it is not packed well, I'm taking 30%. Photographs support my deduction.
No need to overthink this stuff.
kathiec
·3 months agoWhat you don't realize is that every order can't be canceled. For example, many sellers who are dropshipping use automated fulfillment systems, which your order goes into the minute it's made.
I also find it odd that you've chosen to take the moral high ground when it was your mistake that started it all.
msha3839
·3 months ago👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏🍸🫡
Unavailable member
·3 months agoSellers are under no obligation to cancel an item at your request, most of the time they will, and most of the time they will not is because they are drop shipping. When you order from them, their system automatically orders the item from their supplier, they can't cancel, so they'll deny your cancellation request.
Exercise due caution before ordering.
krazzykats
·3 months agoSome sellers are AI.
🐈⬛
tobaccocardyahoo
·3 months agoDesperation is a feeling. Some people will still bend down to pick up a penny, nickle or dime. Not all of them are living in poverty.
christworks
·3 months agoI'm not going to apologize, but I pick up pennies, dimes, quarters, dollar bills. I did not know poverty was a requirement to pick up loose change someone dropped. I've never seen it marked anywhere: "Dropped change for people who are impoverished or feel they are only!" I never got that memo.
msha3839
·3 months ago · EditedNothing to do with poverty..simple human nature to get momentum of satisfaction finding something…on occasion I use metal detector on the beach and find valuable jewelry and watches, but the value is secondary to me after experiencing joy discovering something…years ago I found Patek Philippe watch and was able to track the owner…could easily take it to pawn shop and get significant sum of money.. we put everything into perspective..at least some of us..🤷🥃