Seller stole back item I paid for without my permission refunding me against policy
I see this as , unfair business practices, fraud, misrepresentation, under federal law with her, and EBAY as a unwilling partner, in theft and dealing in a federal crime of selling stolen property across state lines 2 counts. I had purchased a $3K plus item on eBay. A US currency bill ungraded, and I paid for it and I owned it before any negotiations started. I had told her a mistake was made in the listing and gave her 2 options, 1 option was to refund my money or option 2 she could discount the price because of the mistake in the listing. She admitted there was a mistake in the listing her husband made in messages to me. I was still the owner of this item even before she accepted option 2 and she offered a $300.00 refund back to my card. ( I was only wanting a refund if she could not discount it and I never agreed to a full refund ) and she agreed to the discount so there was no need for me to get a full refund . That offer of a full refund to her was gone once she agreed to give me a discount, I accepted the offer of $300.00, and legally I still owned it. And it was illegal for her to give me back a full refund over the $300.00 we both agreed to, which she did to me and against eBay policy to do so after a successful transaction. I paid for it and I owned it within 1 minute of the bid ending. (And it is worth $6,000.00 twice as much more than I paid for it when I would have had it graded a couple of weeks later.) and again I owned that item it was all mine to do what I want with it. I still own the item. It has been paid for $3K plus It is all done through messaging there is a message trail and payment history on my card and eBay payment on the site. She is now on the hook for the discount and again I still own the item, it is not hers to do anything with other than send it to me, nothing, I am the owner of the item. And in the process of the negotiating, and after she accepted option 2 of a refunded discount in the amount of $300.00 and in 15hrs, she refunds the money back to me without me asking or my consent that I wanted to give up that item, I did not give up ownership. She violated 3 eBay seller policies 1 she lied to EBAY saying I asked for a full refund that I did not ask for or want after we both agreed to the option 2 discount that I did not want a refund if she was giving me a discount. 2 stopping or refunding a successful transaction after payment without my permission or eBay. 3 lying to a buyer and eBay to commit fraud and misrepresentation and illegally taking back a item she did not now own anymore by compensating me what she thinks it is worth.I won the bid and paid, I owned that Item I did not give up ownership of the item at all that is a super major violation of eBay policy. It is still grand theft any way you look at it, just because she compensated me for it does not mean I gave up ownership. There is a message trail. And she has now stolen a US currency bill I own and tries to compensate me for stealing it from me. By falsely claiming that I had asked to have a refund a lie. As i am telling her I want my item that she Illegally refunded me for. And then she lies again to me turning around saying she had to have it sent to me in 2 days and that is why she gave me a full refund. eBay could see the messaging and the reason ( not the seller’s fault ) that it was not delivered in 2 days. Plus at anytime she could have sent it to me and did a $300.00 refund later. But she did the refund in 15 Hrs after the bid was over, she had 33 hrs in which to put it in the mail and ship it to me that was another lie and fraud. We were negotiating and I was not worried about having it sent to me in 2 days, or reporting to eBay about it I already owned it. And another violation of eBay policy was when she ended the transaction by falsely using any reason, or refusing payment at the end of a successful transaction that had been paid for already. It was not her item anymore to refund me anything, or less of the real true value of the item and not what I paid for it. I got a really good deal at that price. That is how eBay works. I would have had it graded and fetch double the money for it and when the US government goes to digital currency it will be worth 6 times more than what I paid for it. She had accepted we were working out how to give me a $300.00 refund only,not steal it from me. I never mentioned after the first message of any refund, she gave up that option with the agreed discount. I have all messages on EBAY to prove that I wanted the item I owned it and the seller stole it from me and compensated me what she feels it is worth, and is now reselling a stolen item on EBAY. I still own it. I did not give up ownership because she gave me some money. I do not want the money I want my US currency bill I paid for, and I consider I still own it. It is like you pay $200.000.00 cash for a house that is going to be worth over $300.000.00 when you resell it later. And the bank comes back and kicks you out of your home and then compensates you for what you paid for it and resells it for a higher price to someone else. Or you pay cash for a car at a dealership for a good low price and the dealership comes and steals your car back,and compensates you for what they think you should get for it and resells it for a higher price. I never gave up ownership even now I do not want her money I want the item I own. And some employees at eBay even supervisors who I spoke to who have no idea, or care about any buyer, or have any clue about what is happening because it was not stolen from them after payment say they will not do anything about it they do not care that a seller stole an item from a buyer. I legally own I am the legal buyer. All calls to them are recorded and I had many calls trying to get the item I owned back through eBay. After this seller violated 3 of the eBay sellers conduct policy rules what not to do as a seller. Then lied to eBay to commit grand theft and dealing in stolen property after stealing it from me and is now reselling it back on eBay for more money, so this is how I see it. The seller is now selling a stolen item on eBay and eBay is now an unwilling accessory to felony grand theft and helping a thief resell a stolen item by committing a federal offense of dealing in stolen property across state lines since the seller is in NEW YORK and I am still the legal owner of the property and live in FLORIDA , and will likely sell it to someone not in the state of NEW YORK . That makes 2 federal counts of dealing in stolen property across state lines. While using eBay platform to sell stolen property. This was an open auction and I won the auction and paid full price for it, it was mine to do what I wanted with it until they stole it back using eBay without their permission for the theft of property. She had never researched it before listing it. And after she said she and her husband researched it and found out it was worth more than it had been sold to me for. Because they sell jewelry only, and never sold any currency bills just coins and had no idea the true value and had done no research before listing it on eBay. That is when she and her husband decided to steal it from me. That is in one of the messages she sent to me that her and her husband finally researched it so then they knew what the item was worth. I have been a buyer and seller since the beginning of eBay and never had anything like this happen from a seller that has also been on here for many years, we both have 100% ratings. Anybody have any idea what to do before they sell it again it is live and ends the 13th April 2024
kalyoth
·2 years ago1) You own nothing until you take possession physically of the item.
2) Your bartering after striking the contract & agreeing to pay the price is against ebay rules. You violated the rules of the marketplace first. The sole remedy was this: "You have been refunded in full by the seller with reason of "Cancelled at Buyer's Request.""
3) Your attempt to change the bargain voids your ability to be in any part trustworthy to bargain with in the future. Thank you for joining a list of blocked buyers many sellers maintain.
buyselljack2016
·2 years agoUntil I sign the title to "my" car, and hand said title to you..................................... it is still
"my" car.
I can push your money back at you and drive away with "my" car.
That's my story,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, and I'm stickin to it.
campanaelia
·2 years agoI don't believe that's true unless the laws have changed. Many years ago in NY my friend took a deposit for a car and the buyer was supposed to complete the transaction, and p/u the car by a certain date. Meanwhile my friend sold the car to another buyer for more money. When he returned the original deposit and told the first buyer it was no longer available, they took my friend to court and he had to pay the difference that it cost the buyer to buy a similar car. So I believe an ebay purchase would be handled the same way although the buyer would prolly have to take the seller to court in the seller's state.
kitschy*loot
·2 years ago@dickskar You don't truly own an item until it is in your possession, until then a seller can refund you and retain ownership of the item. If the seller decides to keep the item; all they owe you is your money back. I'm not saying I necessarily like when that happens because it has happened to me, but that's the way it is.
If your seller lied to eBay in order to dodge a defect then you can report them for that... you can also buy it again at the higher price... I'm guessing you don't want to do that and you're probably blocked if you did want to.
Oh... I thought I should add there's a 99% probability that any court will laugh you out of the courtroom. 😊
wastingtime101
·2 years agoConsidering you paid $3,355.00 at auction, and the new listing's bidding is currently at $2,770.00 with a week left, it seems the seller's motivation for cancelling and relisting was not to get more money.
Both listings started at 99 cents. Both listings have the same exact description, item specifics, etc. A slight variation in the new title, however nothing in the new title is different from info provided in the previous listing description.
I don't see any mistake from the first listing that was adjusted on the second listing.
To me that says she did not cancel your order to get more money the second time around. She cancelled it because of your communications, part of which was a request to cancel.
house*of*paws
·2 years agoI can't believe I read the whole thing! [While not a lawyer, I'm still sure that eBay owes me an immense sum of money for the brain cells I've lost, the eyestrain I've suffered, and the therapy my cat will need from hearing me scream out in psychic pain!]
Hi @dickskar
I'm afraid that you have a few of the legal facts wrong. And may I suggest that most of your anguish is due to your having pointed out a listing problem to the seller before realizing you had an 'underpaid item' situation. Some might call it 'karma'. I'm very sorry it happened, but there is no way to take possession of the item.
monica-sells
·2 years agoI am speechless...
I read about 3 lines and got a headache...and I am an avid reader......
lakefor94
·2 years agoWhen "federal" was mentioned twice in the 1st sentence, I knew it was not worth the read. Not to mention not using paragraphs.
I think some posters think someone from eBay is actually going to read their rant and take some sort of action.
Unavailable member
·2 years agoUnless the seller shipped the item out after you paid, stalked the package throughout the postal system and snatched the item out of your mailbox, no theft has occurred.
The seller refunded your money. If the seller kept your money and the item, then you would have something to carry on about.
After all you did give the seller a choice to either cancel the transaction or give you a partial refund. But since you had to critique the sellers listing the seller obviously changed her mind about doing business with you.
You have your money back..you are not out anything. Find another seller willing to do business with you.
Curious....how does being refunded go against policy?
soh.maryl
·2 years agoCongratulations to you on being able to wade through that wall of text!
Unavailable member
·2 years agoTo be honest, I only read about a dozen sentences before my eyes blurred.
tinsoldierunderground
·2 years agoSAME HERE!!
house*of*paws
·2 years agoIt's much easier to read on a phone. I wouldn't have been able to read it all on a pc, which I'm on now.
EDITED TO ADD (and shocked that I'm still able to edit):
I was surprised to discover that the OP (the Post) has been growing on me. Visually, it's almost a work of art ... and one of the more interesting posts I've read in the Community. It's just that it doesn't conform with current reality.
tinsoldierunderground
·2 years agoI'm looking at right now on my android, it's still horrible. You're eyes are much better than mine.
house*of*paws
·2 years agoReading on a phone helps keep you from losing your place on a line, since there’s only about 7 words per line.
I had no idea how long the Opening Post was going to be when I started reading it … or else I probably would have just skipped the entire thread. LOL
wastingtime101
·2 years ago@dickskar was so passionate in their original post. I'm surprised they have not come back to the discussion.
bonjourami
·2 years ago"I have been a buyer and seller since the beginning of eBay"
Ebay 'began' in 1995, not 2005.
lakefor94
·2 years agoIf you vented to the seller somewhat like here, you are probably on the seller's blocked buyer list by now.
bonjourami
·2 years agoAnother graduate of the Google School of Law.
buyselljack2016
·2 years agoSeller ships.
It gets lost.
Your item. (you own it)
Insurance pays you? $3K ? $6K? $18K (when US currency goes digital)
chevymontecarlo88
·2 years agoIf you let them know their mistakes (listing mistake and under value mistake) you might of worked out a deal that was fair for all.
I love great deals but taking advantage of someone or a situation is bad karma.
tinsoldierunderground
·2 years agoYou knew the item was worth 6K, you got it for 3K, then **bleep**ed about a discrepancy in the listing?
For a partial refund? I'd say you've shot yourself in the foot, and legally, as has been noted here, you don't have a leg to stand on.
gosimus
·2 years ago@dickskar
< I owned it >
I'm not certain that repeating that literally two dozen times makes it actual. If an item, which was bought and paid for, disappears en route, the seller is held responsible. The buyer does not suffer the loss, the seller does Your particular instance sounds like something for a court to decide. If you decide to sue the seller, I recommend that you allow your attorney to compose the complaint.... your attorney or anybody else.
tinsoldierunderground
·2 years ago+1🤣🤣. Hopefully, Op's attorney paid more attention in 4th grade English composition.
1786davycrockett
·2 years ago@dickskar
Please use paragraphs -- not solid blocks of print.
Please do not italicize and underscore every word -- it is very difficult to read your complaint.
Please use periods, commas, and other forms of punctuation.
Please edit out all the extraneous verbiage.
lacemaker3
·2 years agoIn the USA, the Uniform Commercial Code (UCC) has been adopted by all 50 states, and (among many other things) governs when and how title is transferred from seller to purchaser. The default position is that, unless an alternative agreement has been specified and made, title transfers from seller to purchaser when the seller has delivered the item to the purchaser.
On eBay, there is no provision to make an alternative agreement and the default position applies, so with eBay purchases, title to the item transfers to the buyer when the item has been delivered to the buyer. (This is why eBay sellers are always responsible for any damage that may occur during shipping.)
Unless the seller somehow took the item back after it was delivered to you and was in your possession, then it has not been stolen from you.
wastingtime101
·2 years agoThat's nearly impossible to read due to the wall of text format, bold, italic and underline font. I read part of it and this is what I pulled out:
Is that a correct assessment?
Once the seller refunded you it was a done deal. You get either the item or a full refund and you got a full refund. The item belongs to the seller and they can do with it what they want, including selling it for a higher price.
While you can report them to eBay for cancelling an order you did not want cancelled, eBay's not going to do anything more than put an out of stock defect on the seller's account (if they even do that much since, technically, you did propose a full refund as one of the acceptable options).
If you knew the item was valued at $6k and you got it for $3k, why did you nitpick over $300? Now you've lost the great deal.
tobaccocardyahoo
·2 years agoI cannot read that huge block of text, and underlining does not make it easier.
It needs paragraphs.
You have a civil law problem, breach of contract.
Ebay buyers and sellers breach their contracts more often than anyone would want.
Ebay makes clear what is the seller's responsibility and what is their responsibility, and is not a party to your dispute.