Scam sellers need vetted -- it's getting ridiculous
I recently purchased a scratch touch-up marker for about $20. Immediately after entering the purchase, the seller instantly changed the delivery date -- by several weeks. So I immediately requested a cancellation, and they refused. Now the seller no longer exists. Feedback prior to six months ago was good, but recent feedback is horrible, with everyone saying the same thing. Seller is unresponsive, and item was not delivered.
I reported them to Ebay via Facebook a few weeks ago, but nothing has come of it. Once the delivery date came and went, I reported them again, but I'm still waiting for a resolution.
And today, Ebay emailed me to leave feedback with the company. Seriously? You can't leave feedback because the seller's account is closed.
Ebay desperately needs to start vetting sellers better and making sure on occasion that they're legit, or those scammers are going to lead a lot of prospective buyers away and to other resources.
I think maybe that account was hijacked long enough for scammers to cash in and then jet.
brent_bham
·2 years agoSame thing happened to me around the same time. I bought an item, received a "shipped" notification, and then the seller disappeared. My credit card company refunded the charge, which is why I ALWAYS use a credit card for online purchases. You just never know with eBay.
mudshark61369
·2 years ago@scotthummel22,
"The best thing we can do is alert Ebay when we see things because they're the ones who are on the hook for costs when sellers don't follow through".
ebay does take notice when sellers start getting disputes filed for INR against them. That is why the seller you bought from is Not A Registered User (NARU) now.
What many new sellers and those returning after a year of not selling on ebay, do not know is that ebay will place a 21-30 day hold on their first few payments. They see their payment status marked as Pending and do not ship items, thinking they haven't been paid. They may not be scammers, but may end up becoming NARU because of that. It does make it a bit harder to distinguish between scammers and inexperienced sellers. eBay does have sellers financial info and while they may be the one to process a refund, they will take funds from the bank the ebay funds are deposited in.
"Feedback prior to six months ago was good, but recent feedback is horrible, with everyone saying the same thing. Seller is unresponsive, and item was not delivered".
What you have not told us is, was the feedback prior to 6 months ago for buying and selling or just buying? Did they have any feedback at all as a seller? The usual signs of a hijacked account are no feedback in over a year, then 1 or 2 for purchases only. If they have any feedback As a Seller it is all over a year old, and usually for items having no connection to the present listings. Ex; Previous sales for used household items. Current listings a for New items possibly being multiple quantity available listings, with a lower than trending price.
"Craigslist went through a lot of issues and created a flagging system so buyers could alert them to bad sellers. Maybe that's an automation Ebay could incorporate".
Craig's and ebay have two completely different business models. Craig's allows anyone to list items on that site without any real verification. eBay does require a seller's card and/or bank information to be saved in order for a member to sell. Then again most Craig's transactions are cash or payment at the time of pickup. Very few items are shipped by CL sellers.
C.L. sellers can post links in their listings taking people away from that site, whereas ebay doesn't allow links to be posted on listings or in messages. Contact info can only be exchanged after a sale is confirmed, and mostly only for local pickup listings.
Craig's flagging system is often abused by sellers trying to remove the competition and sometimes by buyers who may have a grudge against a seller.
eBay does have a Report item button on every listing, though unless the report is about an attempt to take an transaction off ebay, or to use an unacceptable payment method Ex: gift cards or bank transfers, reports by only one member will not get action.
scotthummel22
OP2 years agoThe seller's feedback was good as a seller. Of course, you can't see it now because it all disappeared.
Yes, Ebay takes notice after an INR dispute is filed. That is a costly reactive approach. I'm suggesting being proactive, which is never a bad idea.
Not comparing Ebay to Craigslist. Just saying they took a proactive approach after business went south.
maxine*j
·2 years agoHow would you suggest that eBay "vet" each person who registers to sell on eBay? That is literally millions of people, from all around the world.
As it is, each of them must enroll in Managed payments, which requires more than one form of identification and a verifiable bank account. Each new seller is limited in the kind, number, and value of items he may list. Each new seller has the funds from his initial sales held for up to 30 days. Those limits and holds continue for some time, until the seller has established himself to some degree as reliable (timely shipping, few if any INR or INAD claims against him, etc.) Those limits and restrictions apply not only to new sellers but to seller who have been inactive for 90 days and/or sell only occasionally.
There is no question that there are lousy sellers on eBay, some who are intentionally dishonest and many who are just lazy or uninformed. But what ideas to you have to make eBay more "proactive" in eliminating them and/or not letting them sell in the first place?
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scotthummel22
OP2 years agoHow would you suggest that eBay "vet" each person who registers to sell on eBay? That is literally millions of people, from all around the world.
What I'm suggesting is a "flagging" system, much like social-media outlets have. The example I keep giving is the seller I dealt with. When you see a consistent trend for positive feedback suddenly turn completely, there should be an option for a buyer or even another seller to flag that seller so that Ebay can check it out.
It's beyond me why any honest seller would be opposed to this. Bad sellers are going to ruin it for them.
Are you a seller? If so, aren't you concerned that buyers are going to become more and more wary?
scotthummel22
OP2 years agoMost likely a hijacked account, then. Or possibly a "farmed" account with built-up feedback selling keychains or other trinkets for a while before listing lots of vaporware at fire sale prices to rake in big bucks before the negatives start rolling in.
That's what I mentioned to Ebay's Facebook rep, that I think it probably was hijacked.
eBay vetting sellers will not prevent legitimate accounts from being hijacked, or stop hijacked accounts from being involved in scams. eBay has no way of knowing whether a seller intends to ship the items advertised or not.
True. This is why the Facebook rep was thankful for me reaching out. She appreciated my vigilance.
The best thing we can do is alert Ebay when we see things because they're the ones who are on the hook for costs when sellers don't follow through. Craigslist went through a lot of issues and created a flagging system so buyers could alert them to bad sellers. Maybe that's an automation Ebay could incorporate.
Look, everyone can take this advice or leave it. But if buyers keep getting burned, they're going to stop buying here. And good sellers will suffer because of it.
downunder-61
·2 years agoLook, everyone can take this advice or leave it. But if buyers keep getting burned, they're going to stop buying here. And good sellers will suffer because of it.
I appreciate what you are trying to do, but honestly, a buyer will only get burned if they do not follow protocol and the MBG is 100% buyer centric, it's foolproof.
Buyer must do their due diligence - check feedback, check replies seller has left to feedback received and any issues be aware of the MBG
scotthummel22
OP2 years agoI did my due diligence. The seller had a lot of great feedback for months. Only recently, right around the time I made my purchase, did that change. If you are a seller, you should appreciate what I'm trying to do. My purchase was under $20, so I'm not on here to gripe for my own sake. And I'll get that back. Sorry, but weeding out the bad ones is only going to help the good ones.
eburtonlab
·2 years agoI did my due diligence. The seller had a lot of great feedback for months. Only recently, right around the time I made my purchase, did that change. If you are a seller, you should appreciate what I'm trying to do.
No one here can know what you saw, then or now, other than from what you have said about it here.
If there were absolutely no indications of any problems until suddenly the seller just stopped delivering items, how exactly was eBay supposed to recognize that in advance?
Perhaps it was not a hijacked account situation after all; perhaps the seller was hit by a bus.
eBay will have a hard time predicting either situation, no matter how proactive eBay is.
I am not saying eBay should not vet sellers; I am saying no matter how well eBay vets sellers, there will always be problems that eBay's vetting won't necessarily catch in advance. No matter how good eBay's vetting process is, buyers should still check seller feedback and look for and try to recognize obvious signs of scams. Even so, a seller account can be hacked, or used to scam in a non-obvious way, or a seller can be hit by a bus and fail to deliver what was advertised.
scotthummel22
OP2 years agoAre you suggesting Ebay should just maintain the status quo? You don't think a flagging system alerting Ebay to a seller whose feedback suddenly went from very good to very bad is a good idea? Even if the seller was honest and was hit by a bus, it would be a good thing for Ebay to check on them.
Ecommerce and social media are getting inundated with scammers, though. I'm in that world as part of my job, and I see it regularly. I'd gladly take any "flag" alerts that consumers sent me. But for all of you honest sellers, I hope the bad ones don't ruin this market for you by driving away good buyers.
bonjourami
·2 years agoWhat will happen when sellers 'flag' the competition?
scotthummel22
OP2 years agoFalse alarms would have consequences -- as they always have.
eburtonlab
·2 years agoAre you suggesting Ebay should just maintain the status quo?
No, I am suggesting that buyers should not assume that eBay will vet sellers much better in the future than eBay is already doing right now, or that scammers will somehow disappear or no longer be worth taking into consideration. I am suggesting that buyers and sellers should take steps to protect themselves right now rather than waiting for eBay to make them safer, regardless of what eBay does or does not do.
You don't think a flagging system alerting Ebay to a seller whose feedback suddenly went from very good to very bad is a good idea?
I think it's a fine idea, but it would not change how I use eBay. I would still look at seller feedback myself, and avoid deals that are suspicious or too-good-to-be-true, regardless.
If eBay instituted such a system, would you rely on it to always work 100%, and let your guard down when making a purchase? Would you do anything at all differently than you do right now to protect yourself? If a seller's feedback is going down, buyers can see that just as readily as eBay can. What should eBay's policy be for sellers who get bad feedback? Two bad feedback in a row and your sales are suspended? Ten in a row? If a scammer mixes in a few positives to dilute the negatives, should that matter to eBay?
If eBay sets an explicit limit, that just tells scammers how far they can go before they will be suspended. If eBay sets the limit too low, many otherwise innocent sellers will have their listings suspended for no good reason; if eBay sets the limit too high, scammers will keep getting away with their scams until the limit is reached. A scammer can sell a lot of "too good to be true" items before estimated delivery dates get missed and negative feedback starts to appear.
As a buyer you can decide if a listing has any red flags and avoid it on the basis of a gut feeling that you may not necessarily be able to explain or justify. eBay would have to be concerned with avoiding suspending otherwise legitimate sellers -- something that is not actually a concern for buyers deciding for themselves whether to make a purchase or not. Unless eBay chooses a limit that exactly matches or exceeds your own preferences in every instance and perfectly executes that policy, you should still use your own judgment rather than relying 100% on eBay (or anyone else) and ignoring your own instincts, in my opinion.
eburtonlab
·2 years agoFeedback prior to six months ago was good, but recent feedback is horrible, with everyone saying the same thing.
Most likely a hijacked account, then. Or possibly a "farmed" account with built-up feedback selling keychains or other trinkets for a while before listing lots of vaporware at fire sale prices to rake in big bucks before the negatives start rolling in.
Ebay desperately needs to start vetting sellers better and making sure on occasion that they're legit
eBay vetting sellers will not prevent legitimate accounts from being hijacked, or stop hijacked accounts from being involved in scams. eBay has no way of knowing whether a seller intends to ship the items advertised or not.
eBay needs to have a good reason in order to justify removing a listing, preventing a sale, or suspending a seller. But individual buyers can decide for themselves that something does not look right, and move on to another seller based on nothing more than a "gut feeling".
Buyers need to protect themselves by looking out for warning signs of hijacked or fraudulent accounts, and avoid purchasing from those sellers.
In general, you can avoid a lot of headaches by choosing to purchase only from established sellers that have recent and past positive feedback as a seller for selling items in the same category that you intend to buy. If someone is selling a dozen apple watches, but has no feedback, or only has feedback as a buyer, or only has feedback for selling dress patterns or fishing lures (actual examples I have seen), perhaps wait until they have a track record of positive feedback for selling electronics before you buy from them.
You might miss out on a good deal from a new seller once in a while, and nothing can guarantee that you won't still run into an issue anyway, but you can avoid a lot of potential problems by choosing to do business with established sellers. Anyone can put together a listing that looks nice -- it is not hard at all to simply copy an existing listing -- but it is much harder to create a history of consistent sales and positive feedback.
For more experienced sellers, you can learn a lot about the sort of seller you are dealing with by checking the seller's feedback page to see where the seller is registered and to notice if the seller has any negative feedback. If you see negatives indicated in the table of recent feedback, you can choose to exclusively see each type of comment by clicking on the numbers shown in the table. Reading negative or neutral comments can often tell you if a seller has a pattern of problems with items not matching the descriptions, canceled orders, late deliveries or item location misrepresentation.
If a seller has a pattern of too many serious negatives -- or just not enough positive history -- or if there are large gaps in selling history or drastic changes in selling behavior, it is often better to find another seller with a better track record to do business with.
Feedback reminders are generated automatically if you have your communications preferences set to do so.
scotthummel22
OP2 years agoKathiec, I think you missed the point. The INR complaint wasn't filed on Facebook. It was filed through my summary.
However, as for reaching out on Facebook, I respectfully disagree. I'm in the business of having managed numerous Facebook pages for a company and have talked with businesses about the benefits of reaching out that way. I can't speak for them all, but I know firsthand that it has simplified customer service for many. Many find it more efficient than using an automated phone tree, which is why it's almost impossible to reach a live agent these days.
Yes, go through the recommended channels for filing official complaints. But the social-media rep with Facebook was thankful for me reaching out, and customers would be well advised to take advantage of messaging them directly. If they're not interested, they won't respond.
kathiec
·2 years agoThere are approximately 2 billion transactions on eBay every day. That's why eBay has set up automated processes for Money Back Guarantee cases. If everyone ties up one of the social media reps for issues that can easily be solved through the automated channels it won't be long before those reps are so snowed under they can no longer adequately address the issues that can't be solved through those automated means.
scotthummel22
OP2 years agoTo be clear, I reported the seller via Facebook a few weeks ago. Upon the expected delivery date coming and going, I filed an INR case, per protocol. I mentioned all this in my first post, but some seemed confused by that. But I encourage you all to reach out via Facebook. I've found more success that way with businesses lately. Recent examples are Home Depot, Lowe's, CVS Pharmacy and Ebay.
scotthummel22
OP2 years agoYes, the case was opened with Ebay. By the way, you can indeed use Facebook to get a case started on Ebay and with other businesses. The social-media specialist with Ebay worked with me on that.
In fact, business' social-media accounts are becoming a sort of customer-service portal more and more these days. People send messages, and it helps the customer-service reps figure out what's going on. It has become a go-to when you can't reach a live person by phone.
scotthummel22
OP2 years agoI know what to do. I reported them on Ebay and reached out on Facebook. I'm just here to warn others. I know how to handle the situation on my end and am handling. Sorry if anyone thought I was looking for answers. I'm not. I'm warning others and Ebay to be more vigilant with scam sellers.
soh.maryl
·2 years agoWe were concerned because it was not clear whether or not you had actually opened a case with eBay.
momtoabeautifuldaughter
·2 years agoDid you actually report them on eBay or just on Facebook?
You needed to open an INR case on eBay
scotthummel22
OP2 years agoYes, I followed Ebay protocol to the letter. Are you having an issue with a seller, too?
Did you open an item not received claim or file a chargeback to get your money back?