How does this not violate policy?
Maybe someone can help me understand the policy here, because from where I’m standing, it looks like eBay has no issue with fraudulent misrepresentation on their platform.
I purchased an item listed as an unopened first-generation Apple Pencil. The listing explicitly identified it as an unopened 1st Gen Apple Pencil, even including the official model number, A1603.
The seller contacted me the following day to double-check compatibility, and when I confirmed that the 1st Gen Apple Pencil was compatible with my iPad, they stated that the item was third-party, not Apple. The listing does not just omit that information, it very clearly identifies the item as the official Apple product by name and model number, and the photos show the official product in the official box. Looking further into their feedback, I found other buyers reporting the same thing: they thought they were buying an official Apple product, only to receive a knockoff.
Third-party styluses are typically incompatible with pre-2018 iPads, and if I hadn't happened to have an older iPad, I would have had no idea I was buying a knockoff until the item arrived.
I reported the listing to eBay because, frankly, there is too much of this kind of **bleep** out there already. They responded with, "We looked into your report and didn’t find the listing to be in violation of our policy. This determination was made by a customer service agent."
That makes no sense to me. If a listing identifies a third-party stylus as an Apple Pencil by name, by model number, and through photos showing the official product in the official box, how is that not a violation? Also, why are customer service agents investigating reports of fraud? That's wild.
For a company whose entire business relies on consumer trust, that is concerning, to say the least. Be careful out there.
grann-4629
·5 months agoPost #2 provides your answer.
I am not surprised that the eBay 'bot (customer service agent) responded that way. It needs an upgrade or tune-up to be able to see past the fake Apple logo, or it needs to learn how to understand your complete message and not just focus on buzz words.
Best of luck.
ETA: Just saw the screenshots - can't believe eBay is jacking you around with this! From what I can see, the Title and Description of the pencil are true and accurate. The seller should have covered the Apple logo on the box, and that's the piece eBay 'bots aren't able to 'see'.
ETAmore: The Brand is listed as 'unbranded'! Tons of warnings that it's not an Apple product. A bunch of buyers must have missed these clues or don't care as long as it works.
couturehomecollection
·5 months agoeBay simply loves these type sellers. They make too much money from these organized criminals to stop them. They have been a major trafficker of counterfeit goods in partnership with countries that promote this industry for a long time.
Thanks for raising awareness, @anescapologist . As you can see, the eBayapologists live here on this forum. I appreciate you and your sense of honor, values, and knowing right from wrong. That is certainly lacking here, as many with intelligence, reason and class can plainly see as victims are often attacked.
mudshark61369
·5 months ago@couturehomecollection ,
"eBay simply loves these type sellers. They make too much money from these organized criminals to stop them. They have been a major trafficker of counterfeit goods in partnership with countries that promote this industry for a long time".
How is ebay, who does not handle or store the items a seller lists, supposed to figure out if a listing is for a counterfeit item? Especially, if the listing has photos and item specifics for the item listed? eBay has banned sellers who received too many disputes for selling counterfeit items. They also have their VeRO program that Mfrs. can join to report the listings and get them removed. Not to mention the Money Back Guarantee protections.
"As you can see, the eBayapologists live here on this forum. I appreciate you and your sense of honor, values, and knowing right from wrong. That is certainly lacking here, as many with intelligence, reason and class can plainly see as victims are often attacked".
Once again, you call those who do point out how to avoid scams in the first place "ebay apologists" which is demeaning. Yet you neglect to mention when people come here and state things like;
The item cost was low or very low.
I noticed later that the seller had feedback remarks for the same thing.
It wasn't until later I noticed (something wrong) in the description or item specifics.
I didn't notice until after the 30 day period expired, that there was an issue with the item.
I contacted the seller, but nothing happened, instead of reading and using the Money Back Guarantee protections.
All of which are part of the basics for SMART BUYING, and could have prevented someone from falling for a scam, or using the proper or suggested methods for getting resolution, which sometimes the "Apologists", do direct people to use, to get around the standard resolution process.
You also seem to feel that anyone disagreeing with your "opinions" is a scam seller themselves. Has it never occurred to you that even if a person sells on this site, and posts on these boards, that they do not want to be associated with the scammers? They hurt our sales after all. You make those and other unsubstantiated claims constantly.
It shows that you you may have the same lack of Intelligence, Reason and more importantly Common Sense, you accuse others of lacking. Which may show your lack of class when dealing with others.
ryry-jj
·5 months agoYour most powerful voice is to use the 30 day MBG and file for an INAD. Too many of these dings and the seller will feel it. Unfortunately , being a Bobby Brady Hall Monitor, ( I know, I know, I'm dating myself) is just spitting into the wind. For example, none of us know if you are even telling the truth, we would have to do more research, so would eBay, and they aren't. Receive the item, if its not as described, file for a INAD return
ed8108
·5 months agoeBay needs to focus more not only on attracting but in keeping buyers shopping on ebay
kathiec
·5 months agoFrom where I stand they've done that. When I started on eBay in 96 there was no form of buyer protection, no way to report a listing. Shoot, most listings didn't even have pictures. Then they started the "we'll cover a bad transaction if there's any funds in the seller's Paypal account". There never was. Then they moved to "okay, if there's no money in the seller's Paypal account we'll cover all but the first $25". By 2010 that hodge podge of protections had evolved into today's Money Back Guarantee.
You're very good at sniping at eBay about what they need to do, yet I never see you offer any suggestions of practical, concrete steps they can take to accomplish that. I'm sure we'd all love to hear your ideas.
kibble-net
·5 months agoThere's unfortunately way too many sellers who engage in the process of selling items that are misrepresented. Ebay does not directly police them, but if the manufacturer files a VERO complaint, they will be taken down. Additionally, if a seller receives too many negative feedback or item not as described defects, they may lose their selling privileges.
Do your part by opening an Item Not As Described return, leaving appropriate feedback, and reporting the seller to ebay. The wheels of justice move slowly, the best you can do is to check feedback, look for red flags, and trust your gut.
christworks
·5 months ago@anescapologist
I respect the fact that you took a screenshot of the message. However, I could create an AI screenshot of that message in about three seconds. These things can be faked, and I don't know that whoever reviewed your complaint has the ability to look in your account and see the actual message exchange between you and the buyer. I'd guess they don't, because normally that is not something a person removing listings would need access to.
The other thing is that eBay is set up to run most efficiently for them. This means sometimes unfair things happen to buyers and, more often, unfair things sometimes happen to sellers. A seller in another thread reported they were sent back cat treats instead of the expensive jeans they sold to their buyer. How is eBay supposed to fix that short of making both parties whole out of their own pocket? That habit would drive sellers off the platform because fees would go up. If eBay then made the mistake Mercari made by charging buyers a fee, then buyers would leave the platform.
Buyers have far more robust protection than sellers do. All buyers are protected by eBay's 30-Day MBG. Yes, it may be a hassle, but when I buy online I'm normally getting something cheaper, and I'm willing to exchange convenience for that trade-off.
The way things are run may not make sense to you. We all would like a perfect world, but we live in a world full of scammers and, unfortunately, some are on this platform. They are also on other platforms.
tobaccocardyahoo
·5 months agoAn individual report has little credibility. Ebay has lots of experience with malicious reports of sellers.
It triggers an AI review for violations which can be identified without any data other the content (words) of the listing. And the report is counted.
If buyers are filing Item Not As Described Claims under the Ebay MBG that is more likely to trigger action. If there are enough reports to meet a secret threshold, a further review may occur.
Your exchange with the seller is more than 2 standard deviations from the mean for buyer seller interaction. It is rare and is not the basis for Ebay enforcement.
This is a huge site, and has no judges or juries to investigate listing accuracy, just a claims process to reimburse buyers who have been cheated.
kathiec
·5 months agoYou're making the assumption that eBay can have human eyes on every reported listing, much less spend the time perusing messages and screenshots. With 2 billion listings if even .05% of those are reported that's 1 million listings to investigate. So eBay uses AI because there's simply no way to have a staff large enough to thoroughly investigate that number of listings.
I know it seems unfair to not be able to proactively remove listings you know are fake, but the sad truth is that this is not the only listing being reported. No one here condones the seller's deceit. We're simply cognizant of the practicalities of a platform this large. EBay's motto from its beginnings has always been 'caveat emptor' -- let the buyer beware. While they've greatly strengthened their buyer protections since the early days, they have never claimed to vet every listing. They simply can't.
kathiec
·5 months ago@anescapologist
Just curious how you think eBay can determine the listing is incorrect other than someone saying it is? They've not only not physically inspected it, there's no possible way they could. So they have a situation where some random member, who may be a competitor, says it's fake.
What eBay does have is a very robust Money Back Guarantee. So not only does every single person who receives the not as described item have a means to get their money back, every MBG case settled in the buyer's favor gives the seller an account defect. It doesn't take to many of those for a seller to lose the ability to sell here.
anescapologist
OP5 months agoThe seller literally stated the item was a third-party stylus in a private message. I included the same screenshots in my report that I linked to here (and customer support can, I assume, view the actual messages directly to confirm authenticity).
Nothing in my report to eBay required them to take me at my word. The listing is available for them to view. The messages between myself and the seller are available for them to view. I'm not even an eBay seller, I have nothing to gain, but even if I was, it should be a pretty clear case just based on the listing and the messages from the seller.
grann-4629
·5 months ago... how you think eBay can determine the listing is incorrect other than someone saying it is?
... So they have a situation where some random member, who may be a competitor, says it's fake.
If it gets enough of these reports from different members, you would think a cog in it's brain would energize, causing a reaction to force it to actually look at the listings, read what other buyers have said about the product and make a proper decision.
I don't know if third-party parts would be considered counterfeit or knock-offs, particularly in cases where the original manufacturer has been long out of business and no authorization exists for third party suppliers? This wouldn't apply to Apple tho
jonathanbrightlight
·5 months agoIf the listing doesn't state that it's a third party or counterfeit, and all the listing details match within the listing, you're not going to have any success reporting the listing itself.
However, you can open a Return Request for Item Not As Described, and not only does that result in you getting your money back, it puts a mark on the seller's record and enough of those will get action taken on their account.
anescapologist
OP5 months agoThat's what doesn't make sense to me. The only way eBay will remove a fraudulent listing is if the listing explicitly states that it's fraudulent? I provided both the listing details and the messages in the report. The seller feedback also shows other users reporting the same issue.
This is an active listing. "8 sold today" when I took the screenshot. I was trying to get it removed to avoid more people dealing with this.
soh.maryl
·5 months agoUnless you asked the seller to cancel, it seems like you're are about to receive an item that's not as described.
Per eBay's Money Back Guarantee for buyers, when you receive it, why not just open an item not as described case?
Or am I missing something?
anescapologist
OP5 months agoRight, but the listing will still be up. I didn't report it to get my money back, that's a separate issue.
soh.maryl
·5 months agoAs much as you'd like to protect other potential buyers from this, and I do applaud your intentions, frankly, the first order of business for you is to protect yourself. In this case, that means opening the NAD case within 30 days of receiving that item.
Hopefully, other buyers will be smart enough not to be taken in.
And, quite often, the reason eBay appears to disregard reports is that they evidently can't decide if it's genuine or just a sour grapes fellow seller.
Just open the case as suggested when you receive it.
asset_liquidators
·5 months agoReporting listings generally does... nothing (as you unfortunately found out).
Returning it as NAD is what will get a mark on that sellers account.
grann-4629
·5 months agoRight, but the listing will still be up.
Not for long per Message #3 ... keep reporting it!
grann-4629
·5 months agoI think it was described properly. The title and description say Apple compatable.
JMHO tho ... 😀