Feedback Rules are Rigged
I catch a seller clearly acting improperly and eBay personel verify it but when I ask why the seller is allowed to remove my negative feedback, here's the answer I get:
"I have spoken to our feedback team who have confirmed the feedback was applicable for removal and was actioned this way due to this. In terms of the internal reason for this we are unable to reach out with this information due to GDPR."
Really? The system is rigged toward sellers that are profitable to eBay and they act badly because they know they can get away with it!
21 comments
downunder-61
·3 years agoJust FYI you will get the same answers on Ask a Mentor.
https://community.ebay.com/t5/Ask-a-Mentor/Improper-Feedback-Removal/m-p/33727601#M426372
thgel
OP3 years agoOK, thanks. Then why are there different boards?
meadowfairy
·3 years agoFeedback is rigged. I received 3 items from a seller that were damaged before shipping (Broken parts not in package). Seller was very rude, refusing refund, & ordering me around. Claiming not damaged, even though I sent pictures. Filed claim. Ebay sent me 3 return shipping labels. Seller hasn't lived at return address in over 3 years. I left 3 negative feedbacks for the seller, & Ebay removed all of them. I was told it was because I received a refund. Just because I received a refund doesn't mean the experience wasn't negative.
I left negative feedback for different seller. The seller had several items I wanted, but I selected 2. They were both the same price with OBO on them. I made offers on both of them. With notes on both items that the offer was for BOTH. In the note I put the offer for each item, price for combined shipping, and then put the TOTAL offer. The seller only accepted the offer on 1 item. I asked the seller why they only accepted the offer on 1 item, when the offer was for both. Also, the items were the same price, & I made the same offer on both. I told the seller I wanted both items, and that the shipping cost for 1 item was too high (more than double actual shipping). I informed the seller I am disabled, and I would have bought more from them, but I couldn't afford it. The seller didn't respond to my message, cancelled the transaction, immediately blocked me, and left me negative feedback (left as positive, but negative comments). The reason the seller put for cancelling the transaction was that the buyer (me) asked them to. (I didn't. I asked for both items.) I left the seller negative feedback, & Ebay removed it. The seller broke Ebay policy by cancelling the transaction with a lie, refusing to sell to me because I am disabled, and by leaving a buyer negative feedback. Ebay policy states, and I quote: "Sellers who violate our policies or are found to be manipulating our seller performance standards may be subject to a range of actions, including the reinstatement of previously removed defects, feedback, and late shipments; ineligibility for further removal of defects, feedback, or late shipments; limits on buying and seller privileges; and account suspension." Ebay refused to reinstate the feedback. I was told once feedback is removed, it can't be reinstated. I read Ebay their own policy, and they repeated once it is deleted it can't be reinstated. Both sellers have 100% feedback, and NOTHING happened to them. So, feedback is RIGGED!
an-57470
·3 years agoEbay is gladly doing this on purpose. The general idea is to drive us back to regular brick-and-mortar retailers.
thgel
OP3 years agoHold on a minute. There's no "maybe" about any of this. I stand by my original assertion that the feedback system is rigged and the chat doc that was emailed to me by mistake substantiates that.
The fact is that the seller didn’t respond until I left negative feedback. He’d already sold “HUNDREDS†(his words, not mine) of the item I bought as NEW. The one I got was USED, I proved it and gave him plenty of time to address the issue before leaving negative feedback. The seller got eBay to improperly remove my negative feedback and the chat transcript that was sent to me by mistake proves that. It says “I am at a loss as to why this was removed as I can see no indictation of it violating policy†& “to be honest I don't think that should have been removed. But they are a Concierge Seller and I know that they have a certain amount of feedbacks that can be removed out of policyâ€
So a “Concierge Seller†is allowed to remove a certain number of negative feedbacks in violation of eBay’s policy? No matter how you read it, eBay is allowing improper, out of policy behavior by sellers to the detriment of buyers. That’s a rigged system and it damages eBay all the way around. It may be a FTC violation as well.
The two eBay employees then discuss how to cover up the misdeed of removing my negative feedback by feeding me “talking points†“without including the internal parts†“hahaâ€.
The seller needed my negative feedback removed because he’d already sold “HUNDREDS†of the same item as NEW and has dozens more for sale that he curiously changed the description on to read OPEN ITEM immediately after having my feedback removed.
The seller acted unfairly and eBay had no problem helping him by doing the same thing.
I came here looking for some direction on getting what I believed was egregious behavior properly addressed and have been very respectful to all. I think I’ve convincingly shown just how egregious the behavior of the seller and eBay has been. Does anyone have any useful ideas or am I on my own now?
thgel
OP3 years agoEveryone:
First my apologies for possibly not replying correctly but I hope you’re all still following this.
I was concerned because I didn’t receive the transcript of my long chat this morning even though it said I would on the bottom of the page. I started another chat just a little bit ago asking if I could get that transcript and the nice person I was chatting with apologized and emailed me, what he thought was my, earlier chat transcript. It was actually the transcript of the chat between the eBay employee I was chatting with about my feedback being removed and another eBay employee in SME Support Chat. I am cutting and pasting the entire chat for all to see that my assertions are correct. Ebay is improperly manipulating the system to favor “Concierge Sellerâ€s. I’ll shut up and let you decide. I await your input.
Seller misrepresented an item and you're blocking my negative feedback
2023-05-03
08:05:49 UTC Christian
Asac-chridietz@ebay.com Order ID- 23-09938-75151 Buyer id-thgel No case ID. Issue- regarding feedback. This was removed (CSrequested) on the account as shown under the order ID. Essentially I am at a loss as to why this was removed as I can see no indictation of it violating policy. Would you be able to provide insight into this as I am unsure what to relay to the member
08:10:14 UTC Leon
Thank you for contacting the SME Support Chat, my name is Leon.Please stay connected while I review your question.
08:11:33 UTC Leon
Thanks very much for waiting, I'm still checking this
08:12:14 UTC Christian
No worries at all, Thanks for updating me.
08:12:41 UTC Leon
Thanks for waiting
08:13:49 UTC Leon
I was just looking there and to be honest I don't think that should have been removed. But they are a Concierge Seller and I know that they have a certain amount of feedbacks that can be removed out of policy
08:14:11 UTC Leon
The talking point on this would be that we are not able to see the action that was taken as that would have been on the seller's account.
08:14:30 UTC Leon
Although it has been removed from their profile it would still be recorded on our side and we can still view it
08:14:53 UTC Leon
We can't reinstate feedback but it's still visible internally on the seller's account. If there's any concerns with the seller, we can also get a report over to our Seller Risk Management team to see if we need to take any further action.
08:14:59 UTC Christian
Ah I understand, Yes I know they can have courtesies from reviewing in CSKB. That makes sense.
08:15:16 UTC Leon
Yeah, not ideal but it may have been allowed
08:15:23 UTC Christian
Great I'll explain this to the buyer without including the internal parts.
08:15:27 UTC Leon
Not an easy convo to have with the buyer
08:15:49 UTC Leon
The talking points above should help though 🙂
08:16:00 UTC Christian
Ah sure, is what it is haha. Just wanted to make sure before I go back and explain this! thanks for your time 🙂
08:16:18 UTC Leon
I am glad I was able to assist you today. Thank you for contacting the SME Support Chat and have a great rest of your day!
08:16:20 UTC
chat ended by Leon
thgel
OP3 years agosoh.maryl –
I really do appreciate your input and hope you don’t take my reply as criticism but your reference to eBay’s Money Back Guarantee is exactly part of the problem. The seller threw that out when they finally replied after they were successful in having my feedback removed. Basically what they’re saying is “what’s your problem, you can get a full refundâ€. Yes, I have read eBay’s Money Back Guarantee and it isn’t a license for sellers to act inappropriately. My point continues to be that eBay is not acting in good faith. Sellers know how to game the system and it’s bad for eBay’s reputation. It destroys trust and confidence.
Others:
You are correct regarding the original listing being changed and yes it is a multi-quantity listing. My understanding from my chat this morning was that the original chat was changed. I see now that the original listing still shows the item as NEW and the current listings are shown as being “updated by the seller†and now read OPEN UNIT; which is in response to my negative feedback about the item being used, not new.
soh.maryl
·3 years agoStill stand by my original message, but will add to it: Most eBay sellers are 100% honest. They describe their items correctly, price them accurately and ship them quickly. Do not have statistics as to how many are not; however, when you receive an item that's not as described, you can use the MBG to be made whole. If you prefer to go some other route, that's up to you.
eBay is heavily HEAVILY biased in favor of buyers 100% of the time.
Can you give an example of how sellers can successfully game the system?
And, thank you, I did not take your message as criticism. You're entitled to express your opinion as am I.
thgel
OP3 years agoI don't disagree that the vast majority of sellers on eBay are 100% honest and I'm not making a judgement on the seller in question other than with regards to my transaction. This is about eBay's improper manipulation of feedback which should be very concerning to everyone. It's clear to me from the chat transcript that they improperly removed my negative feedback because the seller pays them a fair amount of $$$ and then tried to cover it up by purposefully trying to mislead me when I inquired about it.
an-57470
·3 years agoOddly enough, my latest seller hijinks involved the seller of my broken, coffee-soaked product (from the fine, misspelling folks at AESautoparts) stealing half of my refund and since Ebay happily and joyfully rubberstamped the theft (I suspect that there was a celebratory parade somewhere where employees of both businesses were clapping themselves on the back with their victory), my feedback also disappeared.
Doesn't really matter if there are bazillions of honest businesses selling on Ebay, it's the businesses like the one listed above stealing my money that have finally soured me on using Ebay ever again.
I can get all the screwing I'd ever want on FB Marketplace, Craigslist, or Amazon, no sense in having a giant, near-deceased entity in Ebay sitting around as intellectual clutter.
thgel
OP3 years agoSorry tinsoldierunderground, I didn't see your reply before my reply to soh.maryl.
I completely understand what you're saying and can assure you that I most certainly did not use any derogatory language or profanity. Of course, why should you believe me which is exactly my point. eBay points to some secret rule which can’t be refuted and may very well lead someone to think I may have said something inappropriate. They could do that with every case. How would anyone know? If that’s what eBay’s response to me insinuates, then I’m even more upset. If inappropriate language were the reason, I’d sure hope they would have let me, or anyone else, know that was the reason. I guess I’ll have to take screen shots of my feedback from now on. See my point? The system is rigged and they don’t have to explain anything. Why would they allow a seller to amend a listing after a sale was final? If my feedback was inappropriate, why wouldn’t they tell me that? Nothing like that was mentioned in my hour long chat where it was relayed to me that the listing was changed and my feedback had been removed and everything I was asserting was correct?
thgel
OP3 years agoThanks. My bad, yes, eBay removed it at the sellers request but without any contact with me. I guess I opened a case after chatting with someone for an hour during which time I was repeatedly told that my assertions regarding the seller acting improperly were correct, etc. The process is a scam with no transparency so they can do anything they want and blame it on some secret that they can’t share with anyone. Sellers know that and take advantage of it. I was sold a product that was listed as NEW. It wasn’t and I messaged the seller with proof it was used but was ignored. After a number of days, I left negative feedback saying the product wasn’t new. The seller then amended the original listing to show the item as OPEN ITEM (although the item was used) and sent me a non-responsive reply to my original message at the same time getting eBay to remove my negative feedback. How/why would eBay allow a seller to amend a listing after the item was sold? eBay admitted this was done. This seller sells a lot of the item I bought and didn’t like the fact that I called them out. The problem is that the process isn’t fair, is secretive, the sellers know how to manipulate it and thus trust and confidence in eBay is eroded.
soh.maryl
·3 years agoHave you not read eBay's Money Back Guarantee for buyers?
When you received an item that was not as described, all you needed to do was to open an item not as described case. The seller would have been required to send you a prepaid return shipping label if he wanted the item back and to refund in total upon receipt of the returned item. You had 30 days to do this with eBay.
Done correctly, the process IS fair and is NOT secretive. eBay has the MBG for buyers; however, there is no way that eBay can force a buyer to learn about it and to use it in a timely fashion.
fab_finds4u
·3 years agoeBay was agreeing with you to tell you what you wanted to hear. A seller cannot change any of the details in the item you won. If they have more to sell they can revise the listing but the details in your purchase remain the same.
myangelandmyprincess
·3 years agoIf this was a multi quantity listing the seller can revise it. However your original order will still show the original. They can't revise your order.
maxine*j
·3 years agoI know you're upset, but please consider just a couple of points:
Focusing on messages to the seller and on feedback are always nonproductive. All you ever have to do is file an Item Not As Described claim with eBay for a full refund under the Money Back Guarantee for buyers. The MBG is ironclad and a refund is pretty much automatic. Once refunded, you can think about leaving a calm, factual feedback -- negative, neutral, or positive.
eBay Customer Service Representatives are, sad to say, notorious for knowing very little, working from scripts, having no authority, and saying anything a caller wants to hear. Because of a lack of training, they take "being agreeable" with "being in agreement."
No seller can change anything in a completed transaction. If a problem arises, sellers might make changes to other listings for the same item, but they cannot make a change in a completed listing. Period.
It is actually not easy for a seller to get a negative feedback removed, even an undeserved one, so there was some kind of violation in the feedback you left, however unintentional on your part.
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thgel
OP3 years agomaxine*j -
Thank you very much. I understand and repeat what I said to soh.maryl. The Money Back Guarantee should not be allowed to be held up as to why it's OK for sellers to act improperly and that's what's happening.
buyselljack2016
·3 years agoDid you request a return?
Did you return the item?
maxine*j
·3 years agoMaybe the seller "acted improperly." Maybe the seller just made a mistake (rectified in the remaining listings for the same item). There's even a chance that there was confusion over eBay's definitions of "New" and "New, Other" and "Used." We've seen both sellers and buyers unclear on how eBay defines those terms.
My point is that eBay always sides with the buyer in an INAD dispute and if you use the MBG, you get your money back and you can also leave feedback, if that's important to you. And while feedback does not adversely affect a seller's metrics, INADs do.
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tinsoldierunderground
·3 years agoIn addition to what soh.maryl wrote, if you used any phrasing that was even remotely derogatory toward the seller, ebay would remove the feedback. When leaving NF, you need to be strictly factual, even if the seller acted like an idiot.
soh.maryl
·3 years agoThe seller did not remove that FB, they requested eBay to do so and they did.
We can't see your FB left so we have no idea why, except if it mentioned your having to open a case, it would have been removed per eBay policy.