Fake watch issue, with a twist - any thoughts from the community?
I purchased what was listed as a Tudor Alarm (not an Advisor, an earlier alarm with an AS movement) from a seller with a lot of sales and a good feedback rating. The pictures weren't great and while I had some doubts, the seller accepted returns so I took a chance. When the watch arrived it was clearly a Frankenwatch parted together from random AS movement alarms and faked into a "Tudor." The supposedly repainted "Tudor" face wasn't a Tudor and was most likely a Bulova (from the remaining indications on the dial, along with the "Alarm" having the typical Bulova "scrolling") repainted with "Tudor" on it. The wheel train bridge and caseback inside were stamped with "Tudor" but were fakes as well. The outside of the caseback had generic "Brevet" "Stainless Steel," etc. markings that many of the AS-based alarms of the period have. I contacted the seller and they claimed to have no knowledge of its history or being a fake, and accepted the return with a refund. I took them at their word claiming innocence and simply didn't leave feedback because I didn't want to damage an innocent seller but I felt I couldn't give feedback without disclosing the situation. So far, so good, no harm done.
However, about 2-3 weeks later, the same watch turns up listed by another seller in the same city, with the same listing contents, again claiming it to be a Tudor Alarm with a refinished face. I reported the listing to eBay with an explanation but the listing remained up and the watch sold again. At that point I left feedback for the seller I purchased the watch from and sent a report to eBay about it all. Obviously the feedback was negative and I gave a summary of the situation. The feedback showed on the profile for a few hours and then was removed. There are numerous issues that this situation brings up, not the least of which is fake watches and multiple seller accounts for closely-related sellers, but I'm not sure how or even if I should proceed. Also, I am not sure if I should post the sellers' names but I'd hate to see a novice buyer get taken by such as this. Any suggestions, ideas, or general thoughts?
kathiec
·3 years agoOn any given day there are 1.5 billion listings on eBay. There is no possible way that eBay can detect similarities in listings or even do basic vetting of that many listings. So they have a comprehensive Money Back Guarantee to make buyers whole if an item doesn't arrive or is not as described. If a collector is enough of a novice that they don't realize something is not as described when they receive it then yes, they're better off avoiding eBay, or any online venue, until they're knowledgeable enough to make a purchase without a more experienced collector guiding them. That's true for all areas of collecting, not just watches.
drdukephd
OP3 years agoI'm not suggesting eBay monitor listing for duplicate pictures, and there should be no problem, if for example, this seller had reposted the watch and corrected the listing to accurately reflect what the watch actually is. But once eBay receives information that something is suspect, then they can and should at least take a look at the situation.
That said, "Frankenwatches" are sold as such all the time and no reasonable collector has a problem with that because, if the description is accurate, the buyer on notice of what it is. I'm not going to continue to discuss the "it might not be the same watch..." aspect - it is the _SAME_ watch be sold by another account as something it is not, but even if it were just an incredibly similar watch, it is still a faked watch being sold as something it is not.
janet9988
·3 years agoMy guess is that you referenced another listing (different seller) in your feedback summary then I can see it being removed.
It is against ebay policy to name and shame here. Read Community Guidelines.
drdukephd
OP3 years agoI may have and that would explain it - thanks for the info on part of the situation.
kathiec
·3 years agoIf you mentioned your suspicions about the second listing that could also be the reason the feedback was removed. Without solid proof, which you don't have, that's just speculation. And if that's the case, eBay was correct in removing unproven speculation from a seller's feedback.
drdukephd
OP3 years agoThe pictures in the second listing are the same pictures from the listing from which I purchased it. Also, the watch, especially its "refinished" dial and its faked parts, are unique enough to know it was the same watch, plus the wording in the listing was identical even down to the cut-n-paste of the Tudor alarm function instructions. So it is clear, these are pretty uncommon watches (not hugely valuable, just uncommon) to begin with and given the same pictures, fake parts, etc., there would and could be no reasonable doubt it was the same watch again being sold as something it was not. It would easily fool a novice collector and I'd hate to see that happen.
@drdukephd
So what if there’s a listing that looks like the one you returned. You seem determined to report the seller just because something looks the same. Don’t you have better things to do than trying to punish sellers? The seller you bought from made you whole.
Move on and get over it already.
Relax have a cup of tea ☕ï¸.
drdukephd
OP3 years agoI do not know how to make it any clearer - this was not a "similar" watch, it was the same _fake_, misrepresented watch relisted under a different seller's name, using the same pictures. And like I said, I gave the first seller the benefit of the doubt. It isn't as much about "punishing" a dishonest seller (and really, I do not care if they are "punished" unless "punished" means prevented from selling fake/misrepresented items) as it is about protecting novice and new collectors from getting ripped off, which is a HUGE problem in the watch collecting community. Many will not even consider eBay because of these very issues.
bonjourami
·3 years ago"as it is about protecting novice and new collectors from getting ripped off, which is a HUGE problem in the watch collecting community"
Its not up to you to protect other buyers, thats what the MBG is for. And enough not as described cases against this seller, Ebay will bounce him.
Your feedback was removed because the seller accepted your return and gave you a refund. The seller is probably TRS it is one of the few protections eBay offers TRS Sellers.
As for the other listing, sellers are allowed to have multiple accounts. Plus you really have no clue if it’s the same seller or not simply because they’re in the same area. Any case, there is a “ Report listing “ link in every listing. Feel free to report it. But understand, eBay will never tell you the outcome of their investigation.
No can’t post the sellers name here.
drdukephd
OP3 years agoI did report the second listing, but thanks for the info regarding posting specifics as to the seller info here. I find it a bit troubling that eBay would remove the feedback but not take its content into account. I guess the multiple accounts part would be difficult to police even if it were improper. I would think (hope?) eBay would look into situations brought to its attention where a second account was being used to re-list and re-sell suspicious items, especially when eBay can plainly see from its internal information that the subsequent listing duplicates the original "problem" listing.