Deception as a way to return goods sold at auction
I do not advise anyone who reads reviews before buying from this seller to work with him. I won my item fairly and decently, expecting to receive a new item as described. After I received the product, I saw that there were no screws on the motor. I thought it was no big deal, I’ll buy the screws and install them. But when I saw that the most important part was missing inside, I was very upset. I contacted the seller about this, about refunding the cost of the missing parts, but the seller very persistently asked to return the goods that he sold to me. It became obvious to me that by listing a low price, this seller, in order to avoid being punished by ebay, did this deliberately, counting on me returning the engine. but you were wrong, I found the missing parts on sale in the store, and they are already on their way to me. And let the seller, as a reminder of his conscience, of poor quality, keep for himself what he stole from me. I really don’t recommend working with him, I’m shocked by the impudence of this man. https://www.ebay.com/itm/166660719474
albertabrightalberta
·2 years ago@davroalimukhamedo_0
What you aren't understanding is that you were demanding (partial refund) something that wasn't part of the listing. (None of us nor ebay knows for sure that any part of your purchase was missing. It's your word against the seller's.)
Do you understand that if the seller reports you, what you've done is a violation and can impact your account, possibly restricting your ability to use ebay?
The seller offered a full refund upon return and had you opened a return request, he would have had to pay for return shipping. You WOULD have been made whole.
I know there are many sellers who thank you for posting your thoughts.
stevescho
·2 years agoAlberta is correct, there is policy against naming and shaming on this forum, so Davro could be sanctioned. eBay is imperfect, and 10% NAD should not be unexpected. Either return it or keep it. I recall one instance in 15 years on this website where a partial refund was asked (a rarity), then given, to me. Every other time, the seller offered a full refund on return, as with Davro.
Unavailable member
·2 years agoThe buyer was not asking for anything additional to the listing. He was simply asking for the replacement parts to bring the item to how it was represented by the seller. I don’t see anything wrong with a buyer, offering to fix an item for a seller, and asking that seller for a modicum of compensation. Absolutely, it is the sellers right to refuse, and require a return for a refund. But, that doesn’t mean that the seller has done nothing wrong, and it does not mean that the buyer didn’t have a poor experience with both the seller and with eBay.
davroalimukhamedo_0
OP2 years agoThat's right, you finally begin to understand that this is exactly what the seller was counting on. In my practice there was a similar case. Another seller offered the motor, I bought it without an auction. externally it was in completely new condition and was declared as new. But when I received it and opened it, there was severe rust. I took a photo and sent the photo to the seller.
The seller was very apologetic and reimbursed the cost of the damaged parts, and in order to determine the cost, I simply sent a link to the store where these parts are available. Everything went very simply and with deep understanding, absolutely without problems. Of course, in this case, I left a positive review of this transaction. And in this case, what is happening now there are no more words or emotions. Everything is obvious.
stevescho
·2 years agoBut Davro, sellers simply aren't ever required to do that... They are required to refund in full and pay shipping for a NAD item.
soh.maryl
·2 years agoYou "left a positive review of this transaction"?
No, you did not. Why would you claim that?
davroalimukhamedo_0
OP2 years agoI left a positive review of the transaction that I described as an example. Look, you don’t need to tell me to leave a review, I’ll decide what kind of review myself. The best punishment for this dude was not to send the engine, which he so much hoped for!
albertabrightalberta
·2 years agoYou were wrong! The seller doesn't have to refund the cost of what you claim are missing parts. They wanted to resolve by issuing a full refund upon return.
That was the seller's prerogative and that you chose not to accept it isn't the seller's problem and the seller didn't deserve the feedback you left.
Again, you're the one in the wrong so it's ironic that you refer the seller's customers to read this thread because they'll see that the seller isn't wrong.
davroalimukhamedo_0
OP2 years agoWhoever needs it will draw a conclusion for himself.
davroalimukhamedo_0
OP2 years agoThanks for the tip. If you look at other products of this seller, then it is impossible to say that he did not know or did not understand what he was selling. This man is good at this. For delivery to my country where I live, I use the GLOBBING courier service. The goods arrive at their warehouse, and then the courier service delivers to my country, Uzbekistan.
The photo shows the condition in which my product arrived; there were no fastening screws. I know what the parts look like when the screw was unscrewed not long ago; there will be no dust or dirt there. If there was torture and dirt there, I would immediately understand that maybe the seller did not understand what he was selling. He made a request to remove my negative review. But, I hope Ebay has access to our personal correspondence, and they are experienced guys and will make the right decision.
Unavailable member
·2 years agoNo decision will be made without an open return request through Money Back Guarantee.
Several responders including myself told you, that you went about this all wrong.
It matters not if the seller understands what he is selling. He was trying to give good customer service by offering to have you return the item he was paying to return the item. You would have received a full refund.
You were wrong to give the seller negative feedback because he was doing what eBay expects sellers to do, accept a return and refund in full.
I am not clicking on your link. I don't trust unknown links.
davroalimukhamedo_0
OP2 years agoRead attentively. I wrote the answer why it is not acceptable for me to do return shipping. In personal correspondence, I was asked to send me the missing parts or provide compensation for their purchase. Both options were rejected by this deceiver. This link is Google Disk, there is also an order from the store where I ordered the missing parts.
Unavailable member
·2 years agoNo I already read your post I will not read it again. You are not understanding is eBay does not have that nor provide as an option for sellers to send replacement parts or provide compensation for missing parts either, only returns for refund.
kitschy*loot
·2 years agoYou really need a better understanding of how eBay works... because clearly you don't understand how eBay works.
Unavailable member
·2 years agoThe seller was correct in asking you to return the item because that is what sellers are instructed to do. That is how eBay's Money Back Guarantee works.
The seller didn't steal anything from you.
This is how it works…
Go into your purchase history, click the drop down menu it will either say MORE ACTIONS next click RETURN THIS ITEM.
Next click MISSING PARTS OR PIECES.
You may be required to upload a picture, after that you can click submit, complete return.
Your seller has 2 days to issue a return label or refund, if by day 3you don’t receive a return label or refund. You can go back to the case and that’s when you can ask eBay to step in.
When the seller accepts your return, issues you a label, you have to return the item. Once the return has been delivered to the seller, the seller has 2 days to refund. If that doesn't happen on day 3 you can ask eBay to step in for assistance.
stevescho
·2 years ago1. Nondisclosure of defects, missing parts, is not unusual. I suspect it is due to lack of inspection more than Animus, as much of what is on eBay is individual sales of what the seller got in a large lot.
2. Although partial refund is allowed, it is not required, and a return request if executed will not allow you to provide feedback. That's why sellers usually request a return.
3. You got a screaming good deal anyway, so what's the issue again?
davroalimukhamedo_0
OP2 years agoThe money back guarantee covers the return of the product. I didn’t find a line about buyer protection in my case. If there was a forced compensation for short-delivery of goods, I would gladly take advantage of it. It is interesting that the seller, boasting of long experience of working here, stooped so low, ruining his reputation. The point is that all words and reviews will end sooner or later, but the conscience with which the seller will live will end only with him. If you are reading this, know that I have sincerely forgiven you, but will you forgive yourself? Wear this Japanese cast iron compression ring on your most prominent finger as a sign of remembrance of your deed.
It's a pity there is no way to send photos here. Most questions wouldn't exist. If he does business this way, how can he be called a "good salesman"? Why didn't I accept the offer to return the product? I did not accept this offer due to the lost trust in this person. He claimed that he would accept the goods in the condition in which he allegedly sent them to me. Since he did not admit what he actually did, where is the guarantee that, after I send the goods back, they will not start whining about the fact that I removed the spare parts? here are some messages from him.
Why should my conscience suffer in any way? Moreover, I believe that he should receive what he deserves for the things he did. To me, negative feedback on his reputation is an acceptable form of retaliation against him.
"You are welcome to send it back for a full refund. The engine is new as described and has not been run. I’m sorry you expected there to be it’ema that were not pictured. I stand behind what I sell and am more than happy to accept the return."
"Submit the return request and I will provide the label. When I get it back and it is in the condition shipped, I will process a full refund and it won’t have cost you a dollar."
If I were in his place and knew for sure that I was not guilty, I would never agree to a return. This once again confirms my assumption.
davidstarcher
·2 years ago"It's a pity there is no way to send photos here"
There is an insert photo link you can use.
" He claimed that he would accept the goods in the condition in which he allegedly sent them to me"
eBay requires that you do so as well that's standard policy.
"It is interesting that the seller, boasting of long experience of working here, stooped so low, ruining his reputation."
"To me, negative feedback on his reputation is an acceptable form of retaliation against him."
It sounds like he was just asking you to follow standard eBay policy/procedure and ruining his reputation is more your aim then his.
Retaliatory feedback for not performing a requested task that was not required or agreed to by the seller (agreeing to a partial refund falls under that category) is a violation of eBay rules; eBay can and sometimes does take down such feedback when requested by the seller.
"If I were in his place and knew for sure that I was not guilty, I would never agree to a return. This once again confirms my assumption."
agreeing to a return isn't optional for a seller when the claim is item is not as described; returns are automatically approved by eBay. I handle many returns where I don't agree with the buyers reason or claims. I can dispute the reason after the item has been returned with eBay being the final arbiter but in most cases it isn't worth bothering since eBay will almost always side with the buyer regardless of evidence. Instead I simply refund and then report the buyer for violating eBay's rules for returns; eBay keeps a record and if there is a pattern of behavior they may take action against the buyer. This by the way is how eBay tells sellers they should respond as a matter of best practices; it has nothing to do with believing you are guilty or innocent of anything.
Unavailable member
·2 years agoMoney back Guarantee IS buyer protection.
12345jamesstamps
·2 years agoSome people just understand the situation.
I do. It was an auction for a good price. Even buying the parts needed...it was still a good price.
And who wants to go looking for something again.
Plus waiting for that "refund" after having to take up your time to return it.
And having to dish out more money before the refund because you want it today and not tomorrow.
I would still ask seller for partial payment for parts by showing a photo of receipt in an email.
It can't hurt.
And be very nice in the feedback....using certain words and wordage can get the feedback removed by eBay or the seller. Just be honest and nice in it.
davidstarcher
·2 years agoI'm not sure why you would assume malicious intent on his part as I don't see from his feedback that he has a history or reputation for trying to scam people. He might not have known the part was incomplete and paying for return shipping actually cost him more; when it comes to mechanical parts the buyer often has more expertise then the seller. It's not unusual for buyers to insist that items have problems with them as a way to insist on a partial or complete refund. The alleged problems are sometimes legit, sometimes petty, and sometimes fabricated; Insisting on return tends to eliminate the petty and fabricated. Personally I usually will offer or accept an offered partial refund for an item that arrives damaged or with missing parts and most likely would in the scenario you described but as a seller that's my prerogative as my only actual requirement is to accept a return with the return shipping at my expense.
davroalimukhamedo_0
OP2 years agoThe money back guarantee covers the return of the product. I didn’t find a line about buyer protection in my case. If there was a forced compensation for short-delivery of goods, I would gladly take advantage of it. It is interesting that the seller, boasting of long experience of working here, stooped so low, ruining his reputation. The point is that all words and reviews will end sooner or later, but the conscience with which the seller will live will end only with him. If you are reading this, know that I have sincerely forgiven you, but will you forgive yourself? Wear this Japanese cast iron compression ring on your most prominent finger as a sign of remembrance of your deed.
mudshark61369
·2 years ago@davroalimukhamedo_0,
"I didn’t find a line about buyer protection in my case. If there was a forced compensation for short-delivery of goods".
eBay does not force sellers to provide compensation (partial refunds) for missing parts pieces. You can request a partial refund from a seller, which they do not have to agree to do, or they have to pay to have the item returned for a full refund. That's why the seller wanted you to open an item not as described (INAD) dispute.
Had you taken a few photos of what you received showing there were parts missing, maybe they would have considered issuing a partial, even posting a receipt for the parts you had to buy, might have swayed them into issuing a partial refund. You do have to realize that there are buyers who try to scam sellers out of their money, with false claims.
Before bidding on that item, I would have asked for photos of the engine out of its wrapping and the parts bags laid out so you could see the parts in them. The 3 photos they provided along with their "photos are part of the description" statement certainly didn't show much.
soh.maryl
·2 years agoThere IS a "forced compensation" per the Money Back Guarantee.
And you did not take advantage of it.
Maybe you feel the seller "stooped so low". But he did offer a complete refund if you would have returned the item.
What he did that you apparently did not find satisfactory was follow eBay's rules and recommendations.
You chose not to accept that.
And you left him a negative FB? If I were that seller, I would certainly try to get that removed. He did exactly what eBay expected him, as a good seller, to do. You chose not to take that route.
What were you forgiving him for? He made an error in that what he sent you was incomplete. It was in no way an error for him to offer a refund upon your return of the item.
You are talking about forgiveness and conscience. So YOUR conscience does not bother you that you trashed the FB of a seller who tried to make the situation correct.
OK, then, I am definitely done.
davroalimukhamedo_0
OP2 years agoAccording to statistics, the price of the product that I bought is at least 3 times higher than what the seller supplied. I didn’t expect the product to go at such a low price, the seller came up with what I said above. Because when I conveyed my thoughts to him, he did not even object to this statement. He just started trying to persuade me to return the goods to him. But, I take part in auctions here in order to find what I need, to buy what is written in the description, and not then open disputes and disputes, and deal with returns. In general, the cost of the problem that the seller created for me was only $30. I don't give away the goods just because I want to ruin the grand plan.
soh.maryl
·2 years agoSorry you had a bad experience, but I do not really understand the way you handled it.
You received an item that was not as described, per your statement.
You contacted the seller and told him that. He was not required to refund you the cost of the missing parts.
He told you that you could return the item and he would refund. That was ALL he was required to do.
He was counting on your returning the engine? And he would have had to pay return shipping and to refund you. How would that have benefitted him?
Instead, you chose to spend more money to make the item complete. OK, now you have a working item at no further cost to the seller. That'll show him, by golly!
Have you ever read the Money Back Guarantee?