conterfiet coin
How can i find a seller home address who sold me a counterfeit coin so i can send a small claims demand for payment letter. Seller will not answer his messages. a police report has been filed. Ebay ruled against me
because i did not request a return before 30 days. I sent the coin to pcgs next day after arrival, but it took 51/2 weeks before pcgs let me know the grade of the coin which was counterfeit. After taking with xxxxx i found out ebay knows counterfeit coins are being sold on their site but will not budge on their 30 day return time limit. message was send to xxxx ceo of ebay office
50 comments
thebradyster
·10 months agoThanks for the reply all my coin cash was in my paypal account no credit card however if i had used my paypal
credit line for payment then i could have gotten Synchrony Bank to step in for me, time for me to rethink how i should pay for my coins thanks, also a few hours ago i received a message from the seller telling me he wants
written reasons why pcgs made the decision to grade the coin as counterfeit. So i am working on that and not getting much help from pcgs what I have been hearing is they do not keep those type of records owell we will see gary
mtgraves7984
·10 months ago@bullheadrivercity
Name and address? Don't worry with having to find your needle in that hay stack. Contact your CC and let them do it! BOOM!
house*of*paws
·10 months agoHi @bullheadrivercity
I didn't read ALL the replies you received ... so forgive me if I'm repeating information.
PayPal used to offer 180 days to file a claim for either an 'Item not received' (INR) or an 'Item not as described' (INAD). Then about a year ago, PayPal reduced the time period for filing an INAD claim to only 30 days ... the same as eBay.
IF you used a credit card to pay for your purchase through PayPal ... then your best shot is to phone your credit card company and ask to speak to their Fraud Department. You should have no problem getting refunded once you explain what happened.
There are two main problems with filing a case in small claims court:
12345jamesstamps
·10 months agoWhen you made the purchase...what was the credit or debit card on file in eBay?
If, for example it was Bank of American(just an example)...and if you have banking online with them you go into the banking appt...and clink 'dispute' of the sale.
You have to directly notify the credit card or debit card you used for the purchase.
nos25886
·10 months agoIf you paid by credit card, contact your credit card company and let them know what happened. Also let them know a police report has been filed, and let the police know you paid with X credit card. Credit card companies provide a good deal of protection against this type of thing, and can track down to the merchant who is accepting card payments.
If you paid with something else, sorry but it's probably going to be one of those hard lessons of never buy online with anything except a credit card --- where you know you have protection. If a seller does not accept credit cards, either they are too small/cheap to set up a merchant account...or it is a huge red flag that they may be scammers. Scammers know they don't want to deal with credit card companies.
The difficulty here is, no offence, that you might be the scammer. I don't think you are (especially give you were willing to involve the police), but from a legal perspective...how does EBay know the seller didn't ship a genuine coin and you are now claiming it is counterfeit? You can see it gets rather tricky. The seller would need some sort of proof showing what they actually put in the box and mailed. You would need some sort of proof showing what was actually in the box when you opened it up. That type of proof becomes difficult unless you are thinking beforehand how to document.
This unfortunately goes along with my posting about fraudulent sellers on EBay. EBay says they have a "zero tolerance" policy, but their actions clearly indicate they don't actually care if scammers are using their platform this way. Seriously, "You didn't ask for a refund when the seller sent you a counterfeit coin, so we won't help you"!!!! EBay's response should have been, "We are going to investigate and get to the bottom of this, because we have zero tolerance for this sort of thing."
gatew-20
·10 months agoYou do not know my age or circumstances
gatew-20
·10 months agoEnthusiast, I apologize my last comment wasn't intended for you ..
soh.maryl
·10 months agoIf you'll look carefully, I believe you'll discover that that message was not addressed to you.
kathiec
·10 months ago@gatew-20
No one was responding to you. If you look on a post it will say 'responding to ....". If it doesn't have that designation it's probable the response was directed at the OP.
gatew-20
·10 months agoI WISH I KNEW AS SOMEONE RIPPED ME OFF HERE TOO! UNFORTUNATELY YOU WON'T GET ANY ASSISTANCE FROM @eBay! THEY LACK ANY TRUTH NOR WILL TRY TO OFFER ANY HONEST JUSTIFICATION TO HELP YOU IN THIS MATTER. I SINCERELY HOPE YOU FIND THIS PERSON WHO STOLE FROM YOU!
kathiec
·10 months ago@bullheadrivercity
The reason that Paypal won't help you is they have the same 30-day deadline to open a not as described case as eBay does.
Here's the reality of your plan to go to small claims: You'll pay to file the case and serve the seller -- I don't know what fees are where you live, but where I am they're $100+. You'll be awarded those fees only if you win, and you'll have the same issues collecting them you'll have with a judgement. After the seller is served they can petition to have the case moved to their jurisdiction, as typically small claims cases are tried in the defendant's jurisdiction. None of your travel expenses will be covered if that's the case. And all this presumes the seller is in the US. A great many counterfeit coins come from sellers in China.
Do yourself a huge favor and dispute the charge with your credit card, get your refund, and go back to more productive ways to spend your time.
broto_64
·10 months agoDepending on the listing the coin may have been aptly described and you may have actually purchased something along the lines of a gold "clad" coin or what have you, while precious metal sellers can be quite slick and crafty with their titles and descriptions IF they have properly described the item then you got what you paid for.
Without knowing what the listing was, there are thousands of them...
bullheadrivercity
OP10 months agoThanks much for explaining things more in a way I under better and easier
As you know I am 87 and proud of being a scout master for over 30 years teaching young boys to grow into manhood and be honest with there dealing with other people, I have gone against some of my teaching by throwing a fit because someone beat me out of my dollars after reading your reply I realize I am acting like a kid to get some type of revenve so I have decided to let it go that makes my wife happy maybe I will even live a year+
or more it's just when you are on social security and medicard it is hard to save those extra dollars up to spend on your coin hobbies to loose it this way thanks gary
soh.maryl
·10 months agoWhy have you decided against doing a chargeback on your credit card?
msha3839
·10 months agoCount your blessings that you got to this age and enjoy your life..even under current circumstances, it could be much worse…imagine being forced to pay alimony at your young age..🫡..just kidding..good luck..
gatew-20
·10 months agoMSHA3839 YOU DO NOT KNOW MY AGE OR CIRCUMSTANCES WHATSOEVER ..
quigleyscorner
·10 months agoI'm really sorry this happened to you. I don't want to assume that you are aware that as the buying frenzy of gold and silver has spiked, new scammers are multiplying daily to rip you off. Given my experience collecting coins on eBay for 15 years, there is no chance you will recover your investment. These guys move around so it's unlikely you will ever catch them and law enforcement doesn't have resources to follow up. All grading services take months and just because PCGS certified "counterfeit" it's not legally binding It's an opinion and you would have to present an expert in court. [PCGS only guarantees that if you can prove its a higher grade, then you get a refund.] Not legal advice, just an "amateur" opinion.
reallynicestamps
·10 months agoWith an eBay purchase you have three levels of appeal.
First is eBay- you have 30 days to Claim from Delivery.
Too late now
Second is Paypal which gives you 120 days from Payment.
I have been told that PP has shortened that Claims deadline to 30 days from Payment.
Third is directly to your credit card.
Most cards allow 120 days from Payment, some 180 days from Payment.
Forget Paypal.
Go directly to your credit card.
If you paid with a debit card or with a cash balance or by e-transfer, you will never see your money again.
Only use credit cards with a chargeback policy when buying online.
Anywhere online.
soh.maryl
·10 months agoAgain, how about simply a credit card chargeback?
dnasilver
·10 months agoUS Secret Service deals with counterfeits. It has to be a US Coin.
msha3839
·10 months agoGenerally US Secret Service not dealing with coins, only bank notes that still legally accepted..no one going to deal with civil war bank notes…
ten_o_nine
·10 months agoPackage label to the rescue! If that's not an option, a quick Google search of their username or company name might do the trick.
babyers88
·10 months agothe home address would typically be on the package it was shipped with. Otherwise, good luck
bullheadrivercity
OP10 months agoYes I know that would be easy but the mailing envelope got dumped during the 51/2 weeks waiting for the coin to be graded thanks gary
ereborbooksnthings
·10 months agoSmall claims could find the seller guilty but there is no guarantee you'll get paid. Im not sure how it works in all states but if they dont pay you have to keep going to court and there will probably be a warrant for arrest issued. Still doesnt mean you'll get paid. Do CC charge back. Court could cause more problems and money than its worth.
bullheadrivercity
OP10 months agoHi tried to get PayPal to help me but they were not interested gave me a lot of runaround but nothing solid on how to get my money back any idea how I can get his name and address so I can send small claims court demand letter thanks gary
sin-n-dex
·10 months agoI won a $28,000 judgment in Canada and have never seen a penny. The debtor just keeps saying they have no money and I got tired of going to court over this.
The credit card chargeback will resolve your issue quickly.
C.
hotwheelsbum
·10 months agoSmall Claims Court, and Judgements that follows is all Civil Manners. Arrest Warrants mainly cover Criminal Actions. Only way Arrest Warrants are issued for Civil Manners is when a Plaintiff (You), or a Defendant goes against a Court Orders, then that's Contempt of Court. In Civil Manners, A Judge can rule that a Defendant owes a Plaintiff money, is indebted to that Plaintiff, that's what the Judgement is for, but NO Court can put a Defendant in Jail for not paying that Debt.
msha3839
·10 months agoSmall claims have no authority in other states, period. OP is in Califonia, my condolences, and their verdict is irrelevant in other states..also OP didn’t follow eBay 30 return policy so court most likely dismiss charges..honestly I would like to see if any judge in small claims court will proceed with this issue..
msha3839
·10 months agoQuestion is in what state seller resides..If buyer in Arizona and seller in Florida, practically not making sense to deal with it..Travel goes to cost buyer tenfold than coin worth..unless the coin unique that it highly doubtful…and most likely the outcome would be in seller’s favor…
ryry-jj
·10 months agoYup, doing a CC charge back is the best way, almost 100% you'll get your money, Small claims judgement doesn't mean you get anything back... just means you won a judgement, and you'll also have to pay a fee to file it with the county
bullheadrivercity
OP10 months agoHere in California if a judgement is not satisfied you can request the the judgement be placed on the credit report but you r right the court does not help getting your dollars back this is more to help me feel somewhat better. I am sure if I was not 87 I might have caught the coin before I bought it thanks for your reply any chance you know a way to get a seller address thanks gary
ryry-jj
·10 months agoIs the seller still active on ebay? Do they have anything cheap you can buy and get shipped to you? You would then have their address off the new shipment. Btw, do you even know if they were in the US?
Did you pay with funds from a PayPal account, & not a credit card on file with PayPal?
sammiea1460
·10 months ago> I am assuming this sale did not exceed the maximum dollar amount for small claims.
Small claims courts may be slightly different from state to state. I was employed at a company where I had to appear as a witness in small claims court for our clients (Indiana.)
Suing someone may sound dramatic but it is expensive, time consuming and often difficult.
You will need a clear timeline of events and documentation.
In order to locate the seller, you may have to hire a skip tracer. Companies are not going to divulge names/ addresses to random individuals. They could get sued if they did.
A demand letter and/ or invoice only serves as a notice of money owed you claim is owed. Keep for your records.
Defendant needs to be "personally" served. This may be done by a process server. I am unsure if certified mail will suffice. If the defendant does not appear in court, you may be issued a default judgement.
If you manage to obtain a judgement, you have to file for a garnishment to receive any monies. The employment needs to be verified. Garnishing an individual is straight forward but a company is very different.
Again, why not just file a claim with your credit card?
bashort
·10 months agohow about doing a credit card charge back?
inhawaii
·10 months agoI ageee.
That's what I would do.
bullheadrivercity
OP10 months agoHi thanks for the reply I thought I was safe with PayPal but they show no interest in helping me a lot of run around but no meat on helping me. There has to be some way of getting the sellers name and address I have a small claims demand letter done to send but need where to send it no help from eBay they will not forward it even though they know counterfeit coins are being sold on their site. One agent even told me that is the reason for the 30day return time line. They know how longs it takes a coin to get through the grading system and for you to get the grade back thanks gary
soh.maryl
·10 months agoThe 30 day return time line has been in effect almost from the beginning of eBay, I believe, and it applies to all eBay purchases, not related in particular just to coins.
hotwheelsbum
·10 months agoDisagree. "Beginning of ebay", first few years, there was no such thing as "Returns" on ebay. Didn't matter what it was, ALL SALES FINAL. Returns didn't start til mid/late 2000's. We call them the Good Old Days. ðŸ˜
hotwheelsbum
·10 months agoHonestly, you're really about to fight a losing battle over this. You're going to waste your time and money taking the Small Claims route. ESPECIALLY if you're going to go 5-6-8 states over to fight this fight.
One, you're going to have to PROVE Seller INTENTIONALLY sold you those Fake Coins. Judge is going to ask the Defendant, "Sir, did you KNOW those Coins you sold to this Plaintiff were counterfeit??" Defendant is going to answer "NO Judge, I DID NOT. To the best of my knowledge those Coins were AUTHENTIC, at least that's what the Seller I BOUGHT THEM from told me as I was Buying the Coins from them". Then Judge is going to look at you and say "Sir, PROVE to this Court that this Defendant KNOWINGLY and INTENTIONALLY sold YOU Counterfeit Coins". Are you going to be able to prove that? No you are not. Then, even after the fact, Coins ARE Counterfeit, Defendant really should Refund money, you bought the Coins under a 30 Day window to RETURN those Coins. You two, You and the Seller, did this transaction under ebay's TOS. Your 30 days were up. Defendant doesn't have to Refund the money. That's a contract. Judge probably isn't going to force the Defendant to pay up.
Only problem you have now is getting a Refund for Counterfeit Coins that were deemed Counterfeit AFTER the sale, AND past the 30 day Return window you agreed to, abide by under ebay's TOS. It's not ebay's problem that it took you longer than 30 days to learn the Coins were Counterfeit. Your only recourse is through your Credit Card issuer. Make a claim with them. Let them sort it out with Ebay, with PayPal.
I understand the butthurt issue here. You've lost a little bit of money so far. You were taken as a fool in your mind. Nobody is wanting to help due to the fact that under the TOS you agreed to, they don't have to help, there is nothing they can do because of the TOS, so on, but honestly, Small Claims Court is going to be huge waste of time. I even take it you're going to take EBay to Small Claims Court. Right. Yeah, let's see how well that works out for ya.
Get with your Credit Card Company. See where that path leads. That's the only path you have right now. IMO. But in all honesty, your 30 days was up. Credit Card Company really shouldn't have any say so in the manner either.
bullheadrivercity
OP10 months agoHi thanks for the reply I thought I was safe with PayPal but they show no interest in helping me a lot of run around but no meat on helping me. There has to be some way of getting the sellers name and address I have a small claims demand letter done to send but need know where to send it no help from eBay they will not forward it even though they know counterfeit coins are being sold on their site. One agent even told me that is the reason for the 30day return time line. They know how longs it takes a coin to get through the grading system and for you to get the grade back thanks gary
doc-holmes
·10 months agoYou're missing something important. Did you use a credit card or a debit card tied to PayPal? PayPal doesn't have your money, they can't pay anyone for you. They take it from a payment source. If that payment source was a credit card, call the card issuer. If it was a debit card or a bank account, call that bank. Although you may not be as successful with that one.
itsjustasprain
·10 months ago@bullheadrivercity : Okay - first of all we can all see your reply when you post here so you do not need to go to the trouble of pasting in the same reply to each person - just once will do it.
I have read this whole thread and the one point I am not sure you are understanding here is that your remaining options depend on how your Paypal payment was funded. If you paid for the coin using your Paypal balance then that is probably permanently gone. But if your Paypal payment was made by having Paypal draw the money from your credit card when you made the purchase then you should be able to see that payment on your charge card statement and you can file a dispute with them. Forget Paypal as they would be just a conduit for your card payment. They would not have been the outfit that provided the payment - your credit card did.
That is what folks have been trying to explain here. If your Paypal payment was funded from a credit card of yours then you probably have a better avenue for recovering your money by disputing the charge - not with Paypal but directly with your credit card provider. This you can do right now - small claims court may sound tempting as well but the reality is that you are very unlikely to win a case there (as others have already explained) and even less likely to see any money that way. Good luck.
bullheadrivercity
OP10 months agoPaid through PayPal and they seem not interested in trying to help me lots of go around but no actual plan for me to take I cannot talk with seller he won’t answer any messages. Have started small claims paper work just need his name and address but eBay coustomer service will not give it to me
s
soh.maryl
·10 months agoAs others have mentioned, why not simply do a chargeback on your card?
nos25886
·10 months agoSadly, this is probably going to be one of those hard lessons times. Paypal is not your pal -- they never have been and probably never will be. For what it's worth, Paypal doesn't protect sellers or buyers. They just take their cut, and basically don't care what else happens. I've had to deal with them from both perspectives.
bullheadrivercity
OP10 months agoHi thanks for the reply I thought I was safe with PayPal but they show no interest in helping me a lot of run around but no meat on helping me. There has to be some way of getting the sellers name and address I have a small claims demand letter done to send but need where to send it no help from eBay they will not forward it even though they know counterfeit coins are being sold on their site. One agent even told me that is the reason for the 30day return time line. They know how longs it takes a coin to get through the grading system and for you to get the grade back thanks gary
soh.maryl
·10 months agoAs I recall, eBay has had that 30 day rule almost from the beginning and it applies to ALL transactions, not just those for coins.
And, since you are determined to go to court over this issue, you'll be happy to know that I will quit recommending a chargeback on your credit card which would be by far the easiest route.
nos25886
·10 months agoYou would actually need a court order. That would then need to go to the PayPal and EBay lawyers (corporate address). Their lawyers would then have to process, decide if they need to comply or not, if they need to comply "research" the information, then finally if they have it send the info back to the court or the police. There is essentially no way somebody is going to hand that address over to you. All has to go through legal channels.
bullheadrivercity
OP10 months agoBought by PayPal and they are not interested in helping me they got there fee so move on thanks for the reply