Being Ripped Off for $15K Sucks, And eBay Enabled It
Seller sends $14,700 worth of electronics via DHL. DHL without authorization leaves the package in my building's parking lot, and of course it's stolen. I get that this part was not eBay or the seller's fault. But DHL is adamant with me repeatedly that the seller has to file a claim and I am not allowed to. I contact seller to politely ask, they ignore. Finally, desperate to get that filed, I file with eBay for a refund to force the seller to pay attention. Seller continues to do nothing for me, whether filing or even doing things I asked like sending me serial numbers for a police report. eBay amazingly decides that the seller has no obligation to file the claim, and I am not entitled to a refund. Seller stops communicating entirely with me and I send huge amounts of evidence to eBay that I can't file a claim, they reject it all saying I need an official form from DHL. I get an email from a DHL manager and send it to eBay, who say they need an official document. DHL says they don't issue any such document and never have. So our small business is out $14.7K, and I can't even leave the seller bad feedback because eBay decided they're not at fault. I apparently was supposed to only leave good feedback for a product I never received and whose seller wouldn't file an online form with DHL to help me. So just be aware; eBay will not protect you at all or help you in the slightest. They simply do not care.
ajs_coins_and_alchemy
·2 years agoI feel sorry for the OP and all I can say is I am so so so very grateful that I have a PO Box (with street adress service) for deliveries to go to... I remember I did that as soon as I even became the least bit serious about pursuing selling on EBay. Of course anonymity so buyers don't know where I live, but it provided me security for all my incoming pkgs I get when sourcing.
I think even buyers, if they buy regularly enough and are getting some decently higher value items shipped, should consider PO Boxes if they are even a little bit concerned about package/parcel security.
therogue-trader
·2 years agoAt this point with DHL/ebay giving you the runaround, you should probably just pursue civil legal action against DHL?
12345jamesstamps
·2 years agoI would have been waiting for the delivery of this package in the parking lot all day. Usually everyone sends email notifications to the buyer about deliveries. I agree it not eBay's fault. Not the seller's fault. I can't believe DHL left such a package without a signature from the buyer(you). It makes no sense and never heard of such a thing to happen. Anything worth that amount "always" needs a signature. Something doesn't sound right.
da9490436
OP2 years agoI was flying up from a work trip in Mexico and couldn't be there that day anyway, also, I received no phone notification of delivery. If you think I'm lying or omitting an important detail, just come out and say so.
albertabrightalberta
·2 years ago@da9490436
What category was your purchase listed in? Was the category listed correct for the item(s)?
kensgiftshop
·2 years agoYour problem is with DHL, not Ebay or the seller.
As long as it was delivered with signature confirmation (doesn't matter who signs for it), the seller is covered.
If you knew $15000 worth of electronics were to be delivered, why wasn't someone there to accept them?
wastingtime101
·2 years agoI agree the problem is with DHL, but the seller should cooperate even if they're not required to - especially since the buyer is prevented from filing a claim with DHL. I presume that's because DHL is requiring the account owner (seller) to file the claim.
kensgiftshop
·2 years agoNot sure what the seller would be able to do?
As far as the seller is concerned, they paid DHL to deliver and get a signature, which they did.
It was DHL that screwed up on their end, so shouldn't have anything to do with the seller.
da9490436
OP2 years agoI don't run a 24/7 business, did not know when they would arrive, and nobody signed for it (I don't think the driver forging my initials counts as a real signature, do you?) Regardless, when DHL refused to allow me to file a claim (because they said it was unsigned!) and the seller refused to do file and eBay refused to require them to do so, it became their problem.
wastingtime101
·2 years agoDHL said the reason you could not file a claim is because you didn't sign for it? Seriously?
da9490436
OP2 years agoYes, but because the driver forged my initials upon dropping it off, the Proof of Delivery has "signed for" on it. That's the only "official" document DHL will give me, and the pages of (and hours of phone calls to) DHL reps and managers telling me it's unsigned for and therefore I can't file mean nothing.
wastingtime101
·2 years agoThis is a DHL issue. I'd continue to push DHL in any way you can - even if it's contacting a local news station that does a segment that helps consumers.
It's not an eBay problem.
da9490436
OP2 years agoMy point is this; if after I show eBay page after page of DHL saying that only the seller can file, and eBay can't do anything except tell me to ask the seller extra nicely to do so, then ultimately eBay's protections don't work any better than going your own.
kensgiftshop
·2 years agoThat's crazy, the driver signed for it, the proof of delivery says it's signed for and they are telling you it's not signed for?
Is the DHL location near you?
It might be worth a trip there and not just phone calls.
da9490436
OP2 years agoI deal with DHL a lot and they're easily the worst company I have the misfortune of needing. I realize that a certain amount of what I'm saying sounds a bit incredible because it's hard to imagine a company acting this way so brazenly, but I have the receipts.
maxine*j
·2 years agoI am sorry this happened to you, and I'm even sorrier that I have no useful advice to offer.
I just wanted to say that I understand what you're dealing with when you try to deal with DHL. We sometimes had to use DHL because DHL offered delivery to countries that UPS and FedEx did not. But, oh, the problems!
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wastingtime101
·2 years agoYep. At my last company we used FedEx for everything international. DHL was forbidden unless there was no alternative.
kensgiftshop
·2 years agoI think would be on DHL wanting to know why it was delivered without being signed for, if signature was required.
wastingtime101
·2 years agoWhether or not they investigate internally, they obviously don't want to pay out $15k to the buyer for their driver's mess up.
At this point I doubt they'd even let the seller file the claim. They may just be telling the buyer the seller needs to file because they know the seller's not cooperating with the buyer? 🤷
da9490436
OP2 years agoI know you don't agree with me involving eBay but thanks for being reasonable here.
kensgiftshop
·2 years agoYou don't have to run a 24/7 business, but I would be there waiting for that package.
As far as Ebay and the seller is concerned, it doesn't matter who signs for it, as long as it's got a signature.
I don't know anything about DHL, but I get packages from UPS and FedEx and they usually sign it and leave it on the porch and I consider it signed for.
Not knowing when they'll arrive is a pain. I've waited around all day for package, to get an email from UPS or FedEx at 8 or 9 at night saying the package won't be delivered until the next day.
What kind of claim does the seller have to file with DHL? The package was delivered and signed for, so the sellers part is done.
da9490436
OP2 years agoDHL was specifically not allowed to drop it off unsigned without authorization. Whatever you personally consider "signed for" is irrelevant here. I was flying back up from a work trip in Mexico and didn't receive a phone notification that they dropped it off. Not sure why you're so eager to be antagonistic and simp for eBay and DHL here. Do you get a cut or something?
kensgiftshop
·2 years agoWhy would I get a cut?
I don't see how Ebay or the seller can be any help for a screw up by DHL?
campanaelia
·2 years agoHave you filed a police report? That would be my next step
da9490436
OP2 years agoI have, but the police are never going to find the thief. It was left literally on the ground on a late Friday afternoon in a high foot traffic area with no cameras. When preparing the police report, I asked the seller for the serial numbers just in case. Seller did not respond. I did ask that the police charge my DHL driver with fraud for apparently forging my initials as a "signature" but unsure if they'll do that. DHL tells me it's unsigned for an therefore I can't file a claim but because the driver forged my initials the proof of delivery says "signed for". It's pretty maddening.
wastingtime101
·2 years agoHey @da9490436 . Ouch! That's a lot of $. When you check DHL tracking, does it say anything about signature confirmation? eBay requires online viewable signature confirmation for any sale $750+ so if DHL just dropped it in the parking lot with no signature then you should have buyer protections for a non-receipt claim. Let us know.
da9490436
OP2 years agoThere was a lot of back and forth between me, DHL, the seller, and eBay here. The driver apparently wrote my initials as a "signature" for the package. I sent eBay photos of where the driver left it (why would you take a photo of leaving it on the ground if you had a signature?) and evidence that no employees were in the building at that time and it could not have been signed for, but eBay dismissed all of that and said that and my screenshots of chat logs with DHL employees did not count as evidence, though their verbal phone calls with DHL did. DHL then would say that the package was "signed for" when eBay contacted them and then tell me that it was not signed for when I requested to file the claim. I am used to DHL being a very badly run company and dishonest to boot but I was shocked at how brazenly they did all this. And that eBay didn't care and said that DHL's policies weren't their concern. I've spent weeks on this and there's no angle that I haven't gone over many times. eBay just plain won't help me. I just want to warn others to think twice.
wastingtime101
·2 years agoCan you arrange to get on a 3-way call with eBay and DHL to discuss the driver signing for the package? Have you been in contact with eBay's high-value claims department?
da9490436
OP2 years agoI have spent a lot of time talking to the High Value crew, they don't care and are markedly unsympathetic and tell me that the decision stands. They wouldn't arrange a three way call with DHL and when I requested that they share with me the information DHL supposedly gave them that contradicts my own, they refused to do so.
wastingtime101
·2 years agoReally sorry this is happening.
The claim here needs to be with DHL. The seller really isn't cooperating? I assume you've called them to discuss?
If DHL confirmed their driver signed for it, they should be covering this.
da9490436
OP2 years agoThanks, I appreciate that. Unfortunately DHL won't let me file a claim and an eBay High Value Claims employee explicitly told me that eBay won't force the seller to do so and I have to work it out with the seller (who, as noted, wont talk to me at all at this point and never was helpful at all even prior to radio silence). Basically DHL and eBay are pointing at each other and saying the other should handle it, and the seller doesn't have to care so they don't. To reiterate, I can send (dozens of) forwards of emails and screenshots of DHL saying the sender is the only person who can file, eBay says that won't suffice they need an official form, DHL doesn't issue such a form, aaaaand thus it goes.
wastingtime101
·2 years agoThat's really rough. Unfortunately eBay is correct that they can't force the seller to cooperate with filing a claim with DHL, and per eBay's written policy there was signature confirmation. In these types of situations eBay always requires something on the carrier's letterhead. Is there a DHL location anywhere near you? If you can stop at one of their locations they may be willing to put something on letterhead for you. https://locations.us.express.dhl.com/
Hopefully someone else will come along that has better advice than me on what you can try next.
campanaelia
·2 years agoDoesn't any order over $750 require a signature when delivered? Isn't that for your protection?
da9490436
OP2 years agoI responded below.
4pawsup*
·2 years agoFor 15k how do they not require signature confirmed delivery? Was your purchase insured? DHL is a well established shipping company. For the delivery guy to just leave it in the parking lot is crazy. Have youryou checked with your neighbors?
da9490436
OP2 years agoSee my response below.
yuzuha
·2 years agoFrom my experiences with DHL, they ALWAYS require a signature for delivery (even if it's only a $20 item) UNLESS you have filed a form with them stating that a signature is not required.
tobaccocardyahoo
·2 years agoIt is likely that you filed a claim for Item Not Received. The seller wins that if they have tracking.
Your Ebay Guarantee Claim should be item not as described.
Or more reliably you should open a Credit Card Chargeback dispute for item not received. They are more likely to require a signature for proof of delivery.
wastingtime101
·2 years agoIf a buyer files a chargeback on a $15k purchase they could easily lose their MBG coverage on future purchases. That should be the absolute last resort after everything else fails.
Besides, eBay does require signature for transactions over $750 so your comment that seller wins is not accurate if there was no signature.
da9490436
OP2 years agoeBay at no point said I'd picked the wrong claim to file, merely that they couldn't force the seller to file a claim and were not willing to put the onus to do so on the seller, even though DHL repeatedly and emphatically refused me the right to do so.