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What to do when eBay reports false information to PayPal
What does a buyer do when eBay reports false information to PayPal about the delivery of an item?
The problem here was a fraudulent seller. (USMail Fraud case opened.) The seller reports an item shipped to ebay (having pulled a USMail Tracking number.) Then the seller actually ship a "parcel" to AN address in the buyer's City and ZIP code, but not to the buyers address. The NAME used is that of the buyer. (I can tell all this because of Informed delivery with the USPS.) The package then gets delivered to the "other" address.
In my case, the item was a 7.5 lbs impact wrench power tool. The actual "empty box" shipped weighed 2 ounces, and went to another address. Went to the Post Office, found this all out, and then opened a Mail Fraud case. Reported the seller on eBay. eBay closed the sellers webpage. But eBay was horrendously slow (IMHO on actions) on speed, so I opened a dispute with PayPal. (They it turns out are even slower, on purpose.) Once you do that, eBay basically will not talk to you. The whole thing is engineered to punish buyers who protect themselves going outside of eBay. (I guess they don't like that. The beligerence from their customer service reps (who seem to be 10 years old) is hard to image, from someone who remembers what customer service used to look like once upon a time. (Even at eBay, and Amazon, long, long ago, when they were building their businesses. Not like today.)
Then Paypal investigated, and eBay claimed the package had been delivered. (Because the package was delivered, TO A DIFFERENT ADDRESS, by design, by the fraudulent seller.) eBay's computer reported that to PayPay's computer (all AI doing this work now, no humans involved, and the AI is stupider than an ant-brain, just like eBay and PayPal want them to be, just like then were TRAINED TO BE (in the sense of formal AI training).
This is a material misrepresentation by eBay to PayPal. Even while they are off closing down the fraudulent seller's website and account. eBay WILL NOT talk to you. You cannot do anything through any portal. (Again, PUNISH THE BUYER. Needless to say, when my little buying spree of late is over, I will no longer be using either eBay or PayPal, the experience has been eye opening in such an unrecoverable manner that I am done with both. Neither really seems to value making good their promises to buyers, neither is interested in combating fraud (except the part that benefits them), they don't care if 30% (at least) of their sellers are fraudulent (in the segments I shop in).
I have been unable to even talk to an adult person at eBay. Thwarted at all steps by their web-fortress, or by AI, or by 10-year olds manning the 1st line customer support lines. (It is bad, so bad. Someone in eBay management ought to go listen to ALL of my phone tapes with their idiot staff. But lets face it, that manager person does NOT care. Only about items that INCREASE profit margins and cut losses. Customer Service is not even on the radar at any level at eBay. Honesty, NOT on the menu. Integrity, forget it, that was last sighted 15 years ago and it was rarefied then.
Is there any other escalation path at the company? Beside just making fun of them by bringing in TV press through the "investigative journalism" approach of things like 7onYourSide (KGO7 in San Franscisco). Its stupid, I live nearby, its 15 minutes to eBay headquarters, but given the horrific response from the 1st line "customer service" reps, appearing at eBay could only result in a trespassing complaint from them, no thanks. And its not that kind of money anyway, not worth that kind of effort. (Which seems to be what both eBay and PayPay COUNT on, that you will just give up, and they won't have to pay, or do anything. (That might involve realizing they have a problem, which they do. When 33% (or more) of your sellers are fraudsters, and more like 75% at the "low end of the price spectrum on items" (e.g. crooks have the lowest prices, they don't have to make good on their offers.)
There has got to be SOME person at eBay that actually gives a hoot. (Or perhaps not, given the LAST set of C-suite execs that got shown the door for doing illegal and reckless stuff, so now we are on a new set. I have to say, I AM NOT seeing any real improvement in the attitudes at the company.)
$50 bucks says none of the last 3 corporate speeches inside eBay to the "masses" to address direction, turn-around, corporate goals - none of those had the words "honesty", "integrity", "service", "honest-marketplace" in them.
If anyone has a suggestion. (Beside the "Help" center, or the online AI, of the 1st line phone number. Those were all worse than "dead ends". They were wastes of time, from totally disinterested people. That end of the business is clearly just seen as a "cost center" to them, and is a black hole to poor a career (or any buyer's time) into.
I can try the press. I can try the "really old-fashioned" US Mail to executive board members, and explain EVERY SINGLE little bit of my ordeal with them (something that would make ANY HUMAN PERSON who every bought anything ever, and dealt with a Kafkaesque bureaucratic disinterested corporation or government just cringe. But I don't think the board at this company is likely to care either.
Is the answer just to give up, and not shop on eBay?
Phone numbers, secret little escallation paths, or a response from eBay customer service at the at-least Senior Director level are the types of response I am looking for now. Cleary, ANYONE lower than that could care less about running an honest business based on my personal first hand UGLY experience so far.
Been shopping on eBay for 25 years I think. I think this will likely be the last year. To low of a chance of good outcome, too much hassle when its not, disinterested and truly rude people in customer service, just a total and complete circus when the focus is on the nasty bits coming out the back of the animals.
eburtonlab
Mentor1 year ago@djoshea
Once you open a PayPal case, eBay can no longer help. The matter is taken out of eBay's hands.
Your best bet may be to contact your credit card issuer (if you funded your PayPal payment that way) and, instead of claiming an item was not received, claim you have a case of "false tracking".
Here is how it works with eBay, but you may be able to do something similar through your credit card issuer:
If tracking shows delivery, but nothing arrives, contact the shipping service to determine if the tracking corresponds to a delivery to your address.
If you can obtain hard copy documentation that the tracking does not correspond to a delivery to your address, contact eBay via social media and explain that you have a case of "false tracking" and you should be given the opportunity to provide your documentation to eBay via direct message. This is different than the usual "item not received" case which is handled automatically and which allows the seller to win by providing tracking that shows delivery.
https://x.com/askebay
https://www.facebook.com/ebay
https://www.instagram.com/ebayforsellers/
You can avoid many issues entirely by choosing to only do business with experienced sellers that have a proven track record of delivering similar items as seen by examining the seller's feedback page, and by avoiding inexperienced sellers, sellers with patterns of negative feedback indicating serious problems, or sellers with large gaps in the selling history or recent drastic changes of seller behavior.
djoshea
OP1 year agoThanks, I don't have or use social media. Closed my Facebook account 10 years ago. Never on mySpace, or Pinterest, or TikTok, or SnapChat, or X (twitter before that). So, none of those routes available. (Nor frankly do I think it would be any different the Phone callback (escalated to a phone supervisor, which really means next to nothing). Of the eBay online chat, or the AI.
And I thank you for trying to help here, truly, but this statement of yours (your lead off statement) is just false....
"Once you open a PayPal case, eBay can no longer help. The matter is taken out of eBay's hands."
Nothing prevents eBay from doing whatever it wants, legally, or in any other way. That is just eBay policy, a bad policy. Nothing is "out of eBay's hands". That is just amusing to listen to. eBay CAN (and should) listen to buyers still. They don't have to do anything, but actively thwarting information exchange is just stupid. (eBay is in fact STUPID here.) That eBay does not allow a means of reporting a "false tracking" is eBay's own doing. That is just a specific form of "the package didin't arrive". Because, they package didn't arrive at my address (the buyer).
I did contact the "shipper". The US Postal Service. Got the information, and opened a US Mail Fraud case. (A felony for the seller when he is caught. Unlikely given the backlog at the US Postal Investigative Service (who investigates USMail Fraud cases.) In this case, I know of 10 different fraudulent transactions (probably more, but I know of only 10) equaling over $2000 in fraud, so its a class 3 felony. (5 years old jail on the light end, 10 years if repeat.) The shipper provided documentation that the package was not shipped to my address. But eBay is still reporting that it is. (And since eBay won't talk to me, or really care what I say anyway, there is nothing that corrects that at eBay between eBay and Paypal.) And PayPal seems to be intent on slow-stepping the process. (I think specifically with the goal getting me to file a complain with my credit card company. (Which I did use in this case, because it smelled a little bit funny, until it exploded into obviously fraudulent after the fact.) They want that because then the LOSS (it will be unrecovable from the seller) hits the credit card company, instead of PayPal. Just wonderful people all these corporations.
I tried with eBay support phone support FIRST. SO SLOW, that I just went to PayPal. (Who is even SLOWER. It is like they are having a contest on who can be worse.)
I am pretty much done playing, they both lose. They lost a 25 year shopper. Not a huge customer, but not totally insignificant either. (I bet I fit a great profile of their "average" customer". If my experience of late was even slightly reflective of other buyers experiences, I don't think eBay will have much of a customer base left in 5 years. Sellers go where the customers are. (They are at eBay today, but not if this keeps up.)
In what world do you get to "its out of eBay's hands". Nothing in their agreements with PayPal or credit card companies requires that they stop investigating. And frankly, NOTHING stopped from them doing it in the first place, before I gave up and went to PayPal.
Not going to sign up for social media (that I have zero use for) just to send eBay a message. That's what email, and customer voice lines, and OnlineChat (direct), and Phone support are for. I don't need FaceBook, or Google, or Amazon (or frankly eBay) sorting through my shorts monetizing my personal information (and shopping habits).
Maybe Walmart's marketplace is the answer. They are not in your shorts. Not much of a marketplace today, but if eBay keeps this up, perhaps it will grow. It is certainly growing now. Amazon doesn't really do "Used" items. Not really. Etsy has not impressed so far.
May I just buy brick and mortar. Expensive, but not really more so on time, personal energy (on dealing with situation mishandled that should exist in the first place). (eBay doesn't close the loop on correct reporting of address from the seller's, which allows this fraud to exist.)
But yeah, social media isn't going to work for me. Thanks.