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Software to manipulate bid
I was bidding on an item. I was the first bid at 150. A few hours before the auction ended another person bid 152.50. Interestingly. the same bid was made twice one second apart (I think this is related to what happened). I got a notification from eBay saying I had been outbid at 152.50. I have the email still to prove it. With just seconds to spare, I made the 4th and final bid at 160. I was so happy when I saw the item said sold for 160 and it said “your max bid was 160â€â€¦but then it said, sorry you were outbid.. huh??
after investigating I looked at the auction summary and suddenly it says this other bidder had bid 160 before me (at the exact time previously said they bid 152.50). And in fact , the bid of 152.50 was no longer anywhere to be found on the auction summary. It was as if some software retroactively changed the bid BEFORE mine to be the same (not even higher) than my final bid. I have contacted the seller to try to explain and ask to not honor this sneaky tactic, but no sure what else to do. I have photos and time stamp to back up my claims as well. Please help!
house*of*paws
Mentor3 years ago>> I was bidding on an item. I was the first bid at 150. A few hours before the auction ended another person bid 152.50. Interestingly. the same bid was made twice one second apart (I think this is related to what happened). I got a notification from eBay saying I had been outbid at 152.50. <<
Hi @jennifeewa-0
The second bid actually was for $160. It showed at $152.50 because eBay doesn't allow anyone to bid against themselves. That's why you saw what looked like TWO $152.50 bids in a row. The $160-bid was hidden.
The other bidder's $160 bid didn't reveal itself until you placed your $160 bid. Then you could see what that 2nd bid (they had placed a second after the 1st one) really was.
You can verify all this for yourself by going back to the auction and clicking on the number of bids (in parentheses). This will show you the complete Bid History ... including the exact time each bid was placed.
I'm very sorry you lost the auction ... but I can assure you that nothing hinky occurred. You just aren't clear about how eBay bidding works.
inceptions
Mentor3 years agoThere was no sneaky tactic and there is no action you can take. Your competitor won because he bid the same amount you bid, but placed his bid first.
Your competitor placed two bids. There is no way for you to know what those bids were. The first one was higher than your bid of $150. The second was for $160. After that, you placed your bid for $160. Since your competitor bid $160 first, he won.
If you want to win auctions, bid one time and bid the absolute maximum you are willing to pay (plus a few cents as a tie breaker), and bid as late in the auction as you can. Then if you lose, you'll never be disappointed because the winner was willing more than you were willing to pay for the item.
jennifeewa-0
OP3 years agoNope that’s not what happened . I will explain again. I explained their initial up bid was 152.50 after I bid 150. They made that bid at 1:00 pm and it was the highest bid leading right up to one second before auction ended at 2:46. It was also the only other bid besides mine in the auction. That 152.50 bid was made 90 minutes before my last and final bid of 160. This is all verifiable in the auction history and notification history I have. I made the final bid of $160 with 1 second the spare. I understand about last nanosecond bidding that’s not what this was. Again to try to clarify, when I was making my final bid eBay said the current high bid is 152.50 . After the auction ended , it said I lost because they bid 160 BEFORE ME—not seconds before me it said they bid 160 an hour and half before me. At 1:00pm in fact, at the same time eBay had previously notified me of the 152.50 bid. Furthermore, now on the summary of the auction that 152.50 bid has disappeared. It was replaced by the 160 bid. Am I still confused? Why would the 1pm 152.50 bid have been replaced by a 160 bid ? Why would it say it was made hours before when that’s impossible based on the screen shots of the highest bid leading right up to the end of the auction ?
rock.star
·3 years agoIt's called automatic bidding they place one bid of $160 hours before you.
jennifeewa-0
OP3 years agoSee next sjene
inceptions
Mentor3 years agoYes. You're still confused. It's a lot easier to explain when looking at the bid history, but I will say again that you do not know what your competitor bid. The high bid advanced to $152.50 when you bid $150.00. eBay used enough of their MAX bid to keep them in the lead. No more of your competitor's MAX bid was needed until you bid $160. Since they bid that amount before you did they won.
When you go to the bid history, click the option to see automatic bids, and that should help you.
Also, read here:
https://www.ebay.com/help/buying/bidding/automatic-bidding?id=4014&st=3&pos=1&query=Automatic%20bidding&intent=automatic%20bidding&lucenceai=lucenceai&docId=HELP1022
jennifeewa-0
OP3 years agoOk I just saw previous reply. Definitely was confused and stil don’t really get automatic bidding. How could a person ever compete with it? It just sucks to think you were in the game and you never were? I still can’t quite wrap my heads around the fact that their bid was before mine becuase of it being set up as automatic. The way I read it I thought it would increase the bid automatically after mine. How can I avoid losing to this scenario in the future? How would this work in the if we both have automatic bidding? Thank you
woodland_gnome
·3 years agoA person bids a certain amount when s/he places a bid, but eBay HIDES the full amount of any bid of the highest bidder that exceeds the price calculation (which is based on the highest bid of the SECOND highest bidder or a minimum amount--Starting Price or Reserve Price--set by the seller).
eBay does not use an English Outcry auction format (bid and counterbid, going going gone to the last bidder at the full amount of the last bid) and you put yourself at a big disadvantage if you try to bid like it was such a format. eBay's auctions use a fixed-time semi-sealed-bid modified second-price (Vickery) format. This makes them fair to all potential bidders no matter their timezone or schedule. What you need to know to understand how eBay (this does not include "Live Auctions" on the eBay site which have different rules) auctions work:
The highest bidder (as of the end of the auction) wins, regardless of when his bid is placed (even if it was received in the last second and didn't show on your screen when your countdown got to 0), but the price is set by the SECOND highest bidder (generally that underbidder's highest bid plus 1 bid increment; less if the winner's bid is not a full increment higher than the underbid, including an earlier tie; more if needed to meet the reserve in a reserve listing; the starting bid amount set by the seller if there is only 1 bidder and no reserve).
During the auction eBay calculates and posts a "current bid", which is simply what the price will be if there is no further bid activity before the auction ends, and uses that "current bid" to set a minimum amount for new bids (1 increment over the "current bid" except for the very first bid, which need only be at least the "starting bid" amount set by the seller).
During and after the auction, eBay hides the full amount of the leader's/winner's bid to the extent that it exceeds that calculated price. (If the winner/leader has made multiple bids, only those that exceed the price have their full amount hidden.) For any such hidden bid amount, eBay substitutes the calculated price amount for the full amount of the bid.
When you bid less than what the current leader has bid before you (or the same amount--ties go to the earlier bid), you are immediately outbid and become the new underbidder and the "current bid" is recalculated at 1 increment higher than your bid (or the full amount of the previously hidden maximum if less than an increment over your new bid, including an earlier-placed tie). When you bid more than what current leader has bid before you, you take the lead at 1 bid increment over his/her (previously hidden) maximum (or the full amount of your bid if it is less than a full increment over his previously hidden maximum; but if it was "Reserve not met" before you bid and your bid was at least as high as the previously unmet reserve price you take the lead at the exact amount of the reserve price unless the general rule would dictate a higher price because the previously hidden maximum was less than an increment below the reserve).
Some people, including eBay, try to simplify this by drawing an analogy to an outcry auction, but one where eBay "automatically places bids on your behalf" up to your maximum bid (hence the phrase "automatic bidding"). This is an imperfect analogy, and in many cases people trying to apply it to a particular situation end up either oversimplifying or overcomplicating the process leading to many misconceptions. If you want to understand how the eBay bidding process happens you need to get away from that analogy. (It is not necessary to understand it if you know and use the following winning strategy below and are willing to accept the results as accurate even though you don't understand how they were arrived at.)
The only winning strategy on an eBay auction is to bid your real honest wouldn't-bid-an-increment-more TRUE maximum that you would pay for this particular item WITHOUT REGARD to what anyone else appears or doesn't appear to have bid. Since what anyone else has or will have bid by the time the auction ends is already figured into the price if you win, there is no need to try to figure it into your bid (other than to assume that someone else is likely to bid about the same amount as you, so it is a good tactic to bid a bit over the round number you likely have in mind as your true maximum to increase your odds of being on the winning side of what might have been a tie or a loss to someone who knows this tactic); all you need to figure is at what price point you would rather someone else get the item than you having to pay more. When you bid, early or late, or whether you put in a lesser bid(s) before your true maximum, those are tactical matters that may or may not influence the behavior of others (other bidders, potential bidders, and the seller) to your advantage or disadvantage.
inceptions
Mentor3 years agoIt just sucks to think you were in the game and you never were?
You were in the game, you just weren't winning it.
I still can’t quite wrap my heads around the fact that their bid was before mine becuase of it being set up as automatic. The way I read it I thought it would increase the bid automatically after mine.
ALL bids are automatic, whether you bid in small increments or bid your max once. There was nowhere else to go after $160. You were finished at $160.
Did you go look at the bid history and use the option to show the automatic bids? It's all easier to understand when you look at it that way. If you are still stuck, post back with the item #.
How can I avoid losing to this scenario in the future? How would this work in the if we both have automatic bidding?
Just like it worked this time. You won't win if someone else bids a max that is more than yours or bids the same amount as your max before you do. That's where a tie-breaker of a few pennies can help if there is a tie.