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Patently fraudulent coin sales
I see multiple ads for US Silver dollars for $39.95 when today the melt value is $73.76. I understand the pricing appeals to people who think they are making a killing by buying severely underpriced coins that I am sure are fake. I know as when Silver was around $50 there was an offer for a Silver Walking Liberty 1 oz. silver coin for $39.95 and I bit. Afterward I read that the coin was fake and when it did arrive I put it on an accurate scale and it weighed at 1.1 oz. It was an extremely accurate reproduction. If I hadn't seen the other reviews I likely never would have checked, thinking I got a deal. I got my money back from Ebay and strangely enough I still have the coin.
My question is this: If there is an unrealistically priced item that should be worth a great deal more than the selling price, such as bullion coins like above, Why does Ebay allow the listing? Is getting their percentage in a sale that much more important than being proactive and eliminating fraud, obvious fraud? I find this indication of the way Ebay conducts its business extremely troubling and have once again relearned to certainly look that gift horse in the mouth or pass on something that looks too good to be true, but what about Ebay?
sshap60
OP8 months agoOK, fine, then it's on the buyer to discern that a silver dollar that is for sale at $39.95 which has $73.76 of silver at todays valuation is a true and accurate reflection of an honest transaction and not for Ebay to go "That appears to be a patently dishonest offer" because Ebay just cannot be bothered to police their own site for fraud, transparent fraud that preys on let's just say, transparent greed. Fine. Sounds like American business ethics 101.
eburtonlab
Mentor8 months agoAny buyer that cannot discern the difference between a counterfeit and a genuine item that is unwilling or unable to get help making that determination will always be vulnerable to frauds and scams.
Is there a policy that eBay can adopt, short of intercepting every single item going between the seller and buyer and having it inspected -- at great expense -- that can ensure that a seller cannot advertise one thing and then deliver something else?
If you think so, please explain exactly how this would be implemented systematically without making selling most items entirely cost prohibitive.
sshap60
OP8 months agoeburtonlab,
Any buyer that cannot discern the difference between a counterfeit and a genuine item that is unwilling or unable to get help making that determination will always be vulnerable to frauds and scams.
I agree totally with this statement.
I would suggest there is a policy ebay could and should adopt which has AI to look for fraudulent offers like selling a coin for much less than the melt value or an item that other sellers offer at a much higher cost. I have no idea of the cost of implementing that kind of supervision and as far as your solution of intercepting every single item before reaching the buyer of course that is absurd.
My only point is that when an item is offered for sale at a significant reduction to a typical price such as the sale I described selling a US Silver dollar for $39.95 when the value of the silver in the dollar exceeds $72 currently should raise a number of red flags immediately and the item and seller should have enhanced scrutiny before that item is allowed to be listed otherwise, otherwise uninformed buyers who are unable to differentiate between real and fake can and will be taken advantage of. All I'm asking/suggesting is that simple, reasonable safeguards be implemented in pretty obvious situations to protect the buyers just like we have endless laws and practices that have been created over time to protect the public good from companies and corporations that employ fraud or remarkably poor oversite in their businesses. That's why we have the FDA, The SEC, and all the myriad other agencies that were created to protect the public. Since Ebay exists ONLY through the revenue generated by the buyers don't you think that they ought to do more to protect those buyers other than the money back guarantee which I imagine is a significant expense to administer, and be somewhat proactive in identifying fraud upfront before buyer guarantee has to deal with it?
eburtonlab
Mentor8 months agoI would suggest there is a policy ebay could and should adopt which has AI to look for fraudulent offers like selling a coin for much less than the melt value or an item that other sellers offer at a much higher cost.
And if eBay were to prevent such listings, what do you think would be the result? Do you think scammers would stop listing counterfeit items and quit? Or do you think that scammers would try listing at a successively higher prices until the prices were high enough not to be caught by the AI?
sshap60
OP8 months agoFair enough. I enjoyed the discussion and you have given me thoughtful responses to my arguments. I can see the point of view you are stating and do understand the immense difficulties in dealing with fraud and scammers but will always find the situation troubling. Guess I have been fortunate both in my sales to others and in my purchases on Ebay. Thanks for your time to discuss situation with me. I suppose I'm still living in an ideal world in my mind which is far more unrealistic that the reality of living in the absurd world of today. Cheers, Scot
eburtonlab
Mentor8 months agoYou are very welcome.
My point is that there is no magic bullet that makes scamming impossible; there is always a chance that a seller can describe one thing and deliver another (or nothing). No matter what eBay does -- and we both agree that eBay does not do enough -- buyers will still have to look out for themselves and be prepared to take advantage of eBay's money back guarantee if something is not as described.
eBay could always add a new rule that would prevent a particular scam listing; but then scammers would change the way they list to get around that new rule.
eburtonlab
Mentor8 months ago@sshap60
Counterfeit items are not allowed to be listed on eBay at all. No one is authorized to sell counterfeit items. That fact alone does not stop some people from trying to sell them, however.
The problem is that unscrupulous or uninformed sellers can list genuine items and then deliver counterfeit items.
It is not always possible to look at a listing and know in advance exactly what, if anything, the seller intends to deliver. For one thing, a scammer can simply copy a listing from a genuine seller, using a genuine photo of a genuine item.
Except for a few specific categories of items that go through authentication, eBay never sees what the seller ships or the what the buyer receives, so there is nothing for eBay to check unless someone complains about what was received by invoking eBay's money back guarantee.
Sellers are responsible for the descriptions they provide, and buyers should not assume that eBay screens the listings in advance.
As long as counterfeits exist and there are folks trying to sell them, buyers will still have to be on the lookout for them, and avoid deals that are obviously too-good-to-be-true, whether they are being sold by accounts registered overseas or by domestic sellers wittingly or unwittingly buying counterfeits from overseas to sell here.
Buyers that doubt their ability to distinguish a genuine article from a counterfeit one should only consider purchasing from trustworthy sellers that have an established reputation for delivering exactly what was described, and should avoid deals that are too-good-to-be-true, or deals that are offered by inexperienced sellers that might disappear soon after the transaction is made, or else be prepared to get items authenticated by trusted sources within thirty days to be able to take advantage of eBay's money back guarantee.