What a slap in the face

[ezgeneratorswitch]

This is simple, nothing complicated. Customer purchases an EZ Generator Transfer switch, we own the patent, its label the UL approval and all the bells and whistles....Customer is buying direct. The customer opens a case for return, no problem, send it back unused in the same box, all the parts ...we send you credit.

            Customer returns a disposable face mask from covid!  Pictures taken, info sent to eBay, clearly this is fraud. eBay gives him his money back AND he has our transfer switch.

Sickening.

[lakefor94]

Sorry to hear of the fraud.

Looks like you are Top Rated Seller and accept returns. Should have been able to Report Buyer, upload photos of what the buyer returned and refunded 50% since buyer returned something different.

Buyer would have had to appeal for the other 50% and that would come out of eBay's pocket IF eBay approved it.

Does anyone know if the seller can come back and appeal to eBay for the other 50% of the transaction after using the 50% refund privledge?

We do know that if you use the 50% refund, eBay does not refund your Final Value Fees.

EBay nearly always full refunds the buyer automatically if the case is left up to eBay to decide because it is done by bot. 

[richard1rst]

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@ezgeneratorswitch wrote:

This is simple, nothing complicated. Customer purchases an EZ Generator Transfer switch, we own the patent, its label the UL approval and all the bells and whistles....Customer is buying direct. The customer opens a case for return, no problem, send it back unused in the same box, all the parts ...we send you credit.

            Customer returns a disposable face mask from covid!  Pictures taken, info sent to eBay, clearly this is fraud. eBay gives him his money back AND he has our transfer switch.

Sickening.

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If you own the patent and got it UL approved would I be correct in assuming that you are a formal business, not just a casual seller?

That being the case you must surely have access to attorneys. Sue them in smalls claim court for fraud then offer to withdraw the suit if they return the item. Otherwise, the cost of the item PLUS COURT COSTS pointing how that could easily run into thousands.

[inhawaii]

Sorry that happened to you, but you do realize that anyone making a false claim can rip you off at any time?

[ten_o_nine]

Sorry but no way to win this case, this is one of the risks of selling online, looks like you sold 580 of them so one loss is part of doing business, shoplifting occurs more in B&M stores, part of doing business. 

[farmalljr]

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@ezgeneratorswitch wrote:

This is simple, nothing complicated. Customer purchases an EZ Generator Transfer switch, we own the patent, its label the UL approval and all the bells and whistles....Customer is buying direct. The customer opens a case for return, no problem, send it back unused in the same box, all the parts ...we send you credit.

            Customer returns a disposable face mask from covid!  Pictures taken, info sent to eBay, clearly this is fraud. eBay gives him his money back AND he has our transfer switch.

Sickening.

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Yeah it sucks. Selling here has disadvantages obviously. It's not just the "only buyer" accounts that scam, there are sellers here that do it too. eBay for whatever reason makes no appreciable moves to eliminate the scamming and thievery.  Sometimes it seem like the encourage it with senseless policies and bots that decide all case in favor of the buyer.  It's no wonder buyers and sellers leave, and that it will continue to happen. 

It's not going to take much more for me, to just completely walk away and never buy here again. I sure don't trust this platform to sell on, and I have next to no faith left to buy here. Too many other places around to buy from. 

Like Craig's list, this place has become the platform of the lowest common denominator. C-list no longer is used by anyone. At some point, neither will eBay. The trust has been waning for quite some time. 

[iamalwaysright]

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@lakefor94 wrote:

Buyer would have had to appeal for the other 50% and that would come out of eBay's pocket IF eBay approved it.

In my experience, I’ve issued the less than full refunds many times to buyers. So far 100% of those buyers who appeal to eBay for the remaining refund always gets approved. Just saying. They weren’t all 50%, many ranging from 20-50%.

Does anyone know if the seller can come back and appeal to eBay for the other 50% of the transaction after using the 50% refund privledge?

I don’t know officially. But I’ve experienced this bait and switch return a handful of times in the significant past, not so much recently. Rather than issue the refund, I would call eBay and tell them about my issue. A few of them tell me about the 50% refund and there’s nothing they can do about the remaining refund amount (chalk it up to a cost of business loss, etc). A few were sympathetic enough to go off policy and issue me the entire payment amount and close the return case out for me. I can’t remember if the case was closed in my favor or they just refunded the buyer on my behalf out of eBay’s pocket. Again used to happen long ago. I don’t think I ever tried to appeal for the rest of the refund amount after issuing 50%.

We do know that if you use the 50% refund, eBay does not refund your Final Value Fees.

Is this true? I thought eBay changed it to pro-rated. Can anyone here confirm this claim? Maybe one of the blues? kyle@ebay devon@ebay 

If none of the FVF gets refunded, then that would mean keeping 50% of the full refund from a buyer is actually more like keeping 37% because of the full FVF you have to still pay.

EBay nearly always full refunds the buyer automatically if the case is left up to eBay to decide because it is done by bot. 

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[7194robert]

A proper response from Ebay would be to cover the transaction on both sides, it would not only make everyone happy, but instead of leaving a shady selling site it would restore confidence in THEIR platform.   In the long run I think this would help them more than hurt them.   If covering these cases would make the company not profitable, then the whole platform should be scrapped and not throw all the expenses on the seller.   Ebay taking a seller fee's, final value fees, promoting fees, fee's on shipping on shipping expenses that the shipping companies get the profit, and they can't even insure I don't get ripped off?   What exactly is Ebay even doing besides taking money.   Even selling something in a dark alley feels safer cuz at least you have the option of fighting to not get ripped off.    I used to proudly tell people I sell on Ebay, now I just wonder if their going to end their company with the next policy update

[gail5176]

That sucks

[golfingaddict]

 There is an article in the Wall Street Journal that addresses this exact issue.  I'm not surprised it is happening on eBay as there is very little that sellers can do.

it doesn't solve the OP's problem but is shows a growing trend.

It is an interesting article.  

Brick-Filled Boxes. Bogus Receipts. Retailers Battle Fraudulent Returns.

More than $100 billion in merchandise was returned fraudulently in the U.S. in 2023, retailers say, up sharply since 2020

[lakefor94]

"We do know that if you use the 50% refund, eBay does not refund your Final Value Fees.

Is this true? I thought eBay changed it to pro-rated. Can anyone here confirm this claim? Maybe one of the blues? kyle@ebay devon@ebay 

If none of the FVF gets refunded, then that would mean keeping 50% of the full refund from a buyer is actually more like keeping 37% because of the full FVF you have to still pay."

@iamalwaysright 

We did confirm that here on the boards. @gurlcat or someone else posted the eBay documentation on it.

When you use the refund deduction, up to 50%, eBay keeps the FVF's. In this scenario,  the seller has to upload a photo(s), and report the buyer. All part of the return case. (Added that for others. You already knew)

If is it a random refund for something you worked out with the buyer, then eBay pro-rates the FVF and issues the seller a refund. 

[iamalwaysright]

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@lakefor94 wrote:

"We do know that if you use the 50% refund, eBay does not refund your Final Value Fees.

Is this true? I thought eBay changed it to pro-rated. Can anyone here confirm this claim? Maybe one of the blues? kyle@ebay devon@ebay 

If none of the FVF gets refunded, then that would mean keeping 50% of the full refund from a buyer is actually more like keeping 37% because of the full FVF you have to still pay."

@iamalwaysright 

We did confirm that here on the boards. @gurlcat or someone else posted the eBay documentation on it.

When you use the refund deduction, up to 50%, eBay keeps the FVF's. In this scenario,  the seller has to upload a photo(s), and report the buyer. All part of the return case. (Added that for others. You already knew)

If is it a random refund for something you worked out with the buyer, then eBay pro-rates the FVF and issues the seller a refund. 

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What about if your item was $40 plus $5 shipping and when you refund you press the radio button to withhold the shipping charge? I don’t have a screenshot of that page (I can provide one soon as I have a lot of active returns from Xmas buyers), but eBay allows you to keep the entire shipping charge that doesn’t affect the percentage that you can also retain. But in my example you’ll be refunding the buyer $40 and not the total $45 payment you received. Does eBay still keep FVF on the $45? Because that FVF would be somewhere around $5.75 so you’ll actually be losing more money by keeping that $5 shipping charge.

[stainlessenginecovers]

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@7194robert wrote:

A proper response from Ebay would be to cover the transaction on both sides, it would not only make everyone happy, but instead of leaving a shady selling site it would restore confidence in THEIR platform.   In the long run I think this would help them more than hurt them.  

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Do you have any idea how many fraudsters would come out of the woodwork if this were done? (on TOP of all the fraudsters already here) 

[lakefor94]

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@iamalwaysright wrote:

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@lakefor94 wrote:

"We do know that if you use the 50% refund, eBay does not refund your Final Value Fees.

Is this true? I thought eBay changed it to pro-rated. Can anyone here confirm this claim? Maybe one of the blues? kyle@ebay devon@ebay 

If none of the FVF gets refunded, then that would mean keeping 50% of the full refund from a buyer is actually more like keeping 37% because of the full FVF you have to still pay."

@iamalwaysright 

We did confirm that here on the boards. @gurlcat or someone else posted the eBay documentation on it.

When you use the refund deduction, up to 50%, eBay keeps the FVF's. In this scenario,  the seller has to upload a photo(s), and report the buyer. All part of the return case. (Added that for others. You already knew)

If is it a random refund for something you worked out with the buyer, then eBay pro-rates the FVF and issues the seller a refund. 

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What about if your item was $40 plus $5 shipping and when you refund you press the radio button to withhold the shipping charge? You’ll be refunding the buyer $40 and not the total $45 payment you received. Does eBay still keep FVF on the $45? Because that FVF would be somewhere around $5.75 so you’ll actually be losing more money by keeping that $5 shipping charge.

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The radio botton option for shipping is a different scenario.  Without having documentation in front of me, I will go ahead anyways and state, yes, eBay does a pro-rated FVF refund when the seller withholds shipping.

Others may be along to provide the documentation. 

[bashort]

That sucks