eBay

jetlag. · ‎08-04-2017

I'm semi-retired, and have been slowly liquidating my watch collection as a way of raising funds to support our new venture. My policy is to accept returns if the item is not as described.

A buyer and I agreed on a price (through best offer) for a gold Rolex, and I shipped the watch the next morning. I checked USPS tracking the following morning, and sent the buyer a message when I saw he had signed for it. About one hour later, without any communication from the buyer whatsoever, I received a notice the buyer was requesting a refund via a claim, because the item was not as described. I responded that I would, of course, refund his money, but did not agree with his statement that the bracelet was "falling apart".

I paid for return shipping, and notified the buyer. It seems to me the buyer requested a refund via "not as described" simply to avoid paying return shipping, but whatever. I don't want an unhappy buyer, so I figured the best thing was to simply refund the money and relist.

Five minutes after relisting the watch, it sold again. The next morning, another of my watch auctions sold. I was shocked to see the funds from that second watch were placed on hold by PayPal. The next morning, PayPal also placed a hold on the funds from the re-sold Rolex. Now, PayPal is holding roughly 9K of my funds (but took their fees out, of course) so I called them. Their answer was because I hadn't sold any high value items for a few years (a 12K Rolex about 4 years ago), my account was flagged for "unusual selling profile". Coupled with a buyer who requested a return because the item was "not as described" means I was now a risky seller! To say I was furious would be an understatement.

I complained as high up the PayPal management structure as I could, which isn't very far. I pointed out to PayPal that I always leave ebay proceeds in my account until I hear from the buyer, but that fell on deaf ears.

I'm done with selling on ebay. It's hard enough for a seller without worrying about PayPal holding your money for up to three weeks. Ridiculous. I've got a few things I promised my wife I'd list for her, once those are gone, I'm out.

Ebay is a great place for buyers, not so great for sellers. My hat's off to you folks who put up with the constant **bleep**.

dhbookds · ‎08-04-2017

Well, as you say, standard practice on paypal........ and if you can't see the reason, having experienced a return........no point in trying to explain.........

jetlag. · ‎08-04-2017

no point in trying to explain what, exactly? I don't need a nanny to manage my returns for me. The buyer was expecting a 10K watch for 8K, and didn't want to be responsible for paying for the return. The second buyer was happy with the purchase, btw, and I've NEVER had an unhappy buyer. I don't sell in bulk, but I buy and sell quality items.

couldabeenworse · ‎08-04-2017

Their answer was because I hadn't sold any high value items for a few years (a 12K Rolex about 4 years ago), my account was flagged for "unusual selling profile". Coupled with a buyer who requested a return because the item was "not as described" means I was now a risky seller!

From paypal's perspective, that seems like a wise business practice - the kind of thing most of us would probably do if we ran paypal. It is the only practical way for paypal to protect itself from sellers who bail when a transaction goes bad.

From your perspective, it is of course a big pain in the backside.

And FWIW, it really had nothing to do with your good customer service.

dabunk2000 · ‎08-04-2017

Did you actually get the watch back in original condition?

jetlag. · ‎08-04-2017

no, PayPal said the hold was because the return was requested via a claim.

In other words, had the buyer simply contacted me wth their concern, and we'd worked it out without a claim being filed, it wouldn't have triggered the hold. Basically, the buyer kicked it in when he ignored eBay's policy of contacting the seller and trying to work out the issue. I had ZERO messages from the seller, before or after.

SO had I stood my ground, disputed the refund based on the bogus claim the item was not as described (I had many high quality pics, and a clear description), I may have prevailed. Of course I would have had an unhappy customer. So I'm basically scr***ed either way. And once again, why I'm done with ebay

jetlag. · ‎08-04-2017

I got the watch back, relisted it, and it sold within 5 minutes of being relisted. Using the same text and pics.

*help_no_brakes* · ‎08-04-2017

"when he ignored eBay's policy"

Do you have a link to this "policy"?

jetlag. · ‎08-04-2017

the PayPal manager I finally spoke with admitted that there was no meaningful reason for the hold, but that once it kicked in, there was nothing he could do to release it, until their time limits expired. He reviewed my history, including a number of several-thousand dollar sales.

The original buyer was refunded the day after he filed the claim, because I immediately accepted the refund, processed his return label, and he got the watch back off to me the same day. As soon as it was back in my hands, I gave him his money back Had he simply contacted me, or answered one of my two emails that morning, this would have been avoided.

I've been a paypal and ebay customer for 20 years, with zero problems or complaints. This is paypal's aggressive new policy of holding client's money. You'll be more sympathitic once it happens to you. Go look on facebook or twitter, you'll see lots of unhappy paypal customers with frozen funds issues.

jetlag. · ‎08-04-2017

file a claim for return. You'll be prompted to contact the seller.

castlemagicmemories · ‎08-04-2017

@jetlag. wrote:
no, PayPal said the hold was because the return was requested via a claim.

In other words, had the buyer simply contacted me wth their concern, and we'd worked it out without a claim being filed, it wouldn't have triggered the hold. Basically, the buyer kicked it in when he ignored eBay's policy of contacting the seller and trying to work out the issue. I had ZERO messages from the seller, before or after.

SO had I stood my ground, disputed the refund based on the bogus claim the item was not as described (I had many high quality pics, and a clear description), I may have prevailed. Of course I would have had an unhappy customer. So I'm basically scr***ed either way. And once again, why I'm done with ebay

@jetlag.

I'm really sorry this happened to you. Unfortunately, many buyers are not aware that they need to contact the seller first. There is also a pervasive belief among sellers that has been expressed over and over and over again on these Boards that buyers who DO contact the seller first, per ebay's suggestions, are SCAMMERS who are just flying under the radar. Never mind that ebay asks them to do so.

Then if they just file a claim immediately, the seller may be offended, hurt, irate, aggravated because the buyer DID NOT even contact them! Remember, though, if they do, they are scammers.

This may be even if they questioned the item's pictures, only to be told the item is without damage and fine!

Often when a buyer DOES contact a seller first, they are treated to direct, abusive, no holds barred, meant to intimidate language that may go on for days. Once a buyer goes through that, they are reluctant to waste their time and subject themselves to that all over again, for no reason. Thus they open a claim immediately.

Again, sorry you had a bad experience, OP.

jetlag. · ‎08-04-2017

thanks. It is what it is. Frankly, I'm upset with PayPal, for this completely ridiculous action. They could clearly see through my history that I always leave my ebay proceeds in my paypal account for several days, and have NEVER just transferred them out, even on my several-thousand dollar transactions. I've had a couple of buyers in the past who wanted a new item for used price, and have learned to wait to make sure they're happy. But I've never received a bad feedback, and have zero defects. I haven't sold big ticket items for about 3 years or so, but have done so off and on for the last 15 or 20 years. So this is entirely normal for me. A 9K hold on your funds for what could be 3 weeks, is not a small thing when you're retired.

The returned item is a red herring. The second buyer was happy, it was just the one guy who was expecting more that triggered all of this. As far as ebay's "Policy" to contact the seller, that was incorrect. But buyers are repeatedly encouraged to contact sellers if there's a problem, and in this case, I was frustrated because he didn't.

anyway, nothing more to see here...................

Good luck all of you ebay sellers, you've got way more patience than I do. Seems to me if you're paying ebay 10% and you're paying PayPal another 3% you should be getting something more than aggravation, but that's just me.

fern*wood · ‎08-04-2017

Just as a tip---listing a return policy, and then adding you only will honor this policy if the item isn't as described isn't actually a proper ebay return policy. That is the money back guarantee which every seller must honor.

Your buyer probably had remorse and may have filed that way but was afraid you wouldn't honor your return policy unless they forced a not as described case on you (since that's what you stated). If you only wish to accept returns for not as described, then you need to list "no returns".

dakotasmoke · ‎08-04-2017

The issue is 100% on eBay because their contact seller after the sale form automatically opens a case if the buyer chooses the wrong option. Your buyer might have genuinely wanted to work it out between you.

jetlag. · ‎08-04-2017

Fern*wood: I do know that. My return policy states: "Returns accepted if item is not as described. Contact seller before any returns."

I know that the Not as described is ebay's money back policy. My re-stating it in my return policy is (in my mind) reinforcing the statement that all parts of the watch is genuine. I do not say returns accepted ONLY if, but your point is taken.