Getting Around The Block

[lovemypommy]

(This is my posting ID)

Curious to see if anyone has dealt with this situation...

I have an item for sale and received a message from someone saying they were interested, but wanted a discount. I don't have "best offer" on this item and sent a polite message back that I considered the price fair due to it being NWT and already over 60% off retail price, but appreciated her interest. Next got a message from her that she wanted to see if she could get cheaper or "free shipping". Another polite message was sent that this item needs to be sent in a box and being that it is around 2 pounds (and would be sent from basically coast to coast) that the $13 shipping fee is on the lower end of shipping costs. 

Received yet another message asking what my "Christmas return policy" is. At this point alarm bells are sounding in my head and my gut tells me that she needs to go on my best buddies list. Shortly after doing this I see a flurry of messages that she is having trouble purchasing the item (uh, yeah). Wake up this morning to see that this particular item has sold and upon checking out where it is being sent to, notice that the buyers address is in the same city/state as the persistent woman sending all those previous messages. After a bit of googling I observe that the buyer is related to or living with this same woman. *sigh*

Now I'm in a quandary as I decide whether to just go ahead and ship as I know now that eBay considers it ok for people to get around being blocked as long as "they really want the item". 

WWYD?

[corvettestainless]

I would go ahead and ship. I'm guessing its for a Xmas Present. If they return it- ah well, but at least sending it and the buyer paying for it means they do want it. 

Something sellers never think about- most all people buy things to keep them, and shipping something back, waiting for my money back etc. is not something I had planned and is a major pita for me, the buyer, as well. (unless this is a high dollar, high theft type item and I'm a buying scammer). 

[gwzcomps]

Don't forget to block them, report them, and also report them to customer support. It is ridiculous these behaviors are allowed. Before PayPal stopped refunding the fees I would have just canceled the order after calling eBay.

[earlyant-77]

Send it fast - so they get it before Nov 24th. That way they can't file a SNAD on ebay on December 26.

[kathy507]

Before venturing an opinion, can I ask if the item in question is a Christmas item?  If so, be prepared for a possible return after Christmas and they may have used/abused it.

It is always possible that the person who wanted it, finding they were blocked from buying, had a partner/friend buy it for them and it not technically circumvent the block.

What kind of feedback did the person who wanted to buy leave for sellers?   What about the "new" buyer? If their feedback it OK, that would affect how I handled it.

If you feel strongly the two buyers are the same, I would report the potential buyer to eBay for circumventing the blocked bidding list.  EBaywill not do anything but it is worth a try and they could ascertain if the two "buyers" are the same and it may create a pattern.

If you ship it, make sure it is priority mail with insurance.

Should you ship it?  Can your seller account take the hit for canceling the sale?  Only you can answer that.

If you really want to go out on a limb, you can contact the first potential buyer and ask them if they are the "new" buyer and if so why they did it.  You can express your reluctance to ship to them if it is, based on their behavior and see how they respond.

This is eBay. Be prepared to take a hit on anything you sell.  There is really no seller protection here.

Good luck.

[lovemypommy]

Thanks for all the replies so far...

It is not a Christmas item. 

The buyer appears to be a daughter of the persistant woman asking all the questions. 

Her feedback left for sellers was actually good and fairly upbeat which is the reason I didn't block her until she asked about my "Christmas return policy". The buyer has only 1 feedback herself and no feedback left for sellers.

[paulcookscollectibles]

 you sold you ship hope for the best

[fashunu4eeuh]

I totally respect your gut and think all sellers should absolutely listen to their instincts. With that said, the Ultimate goal is to sell. The time to assess one’s risk tolerance is prior to listing the item, not after the sale. It will save headaches later on.

Blocking an interested party because they asked questions is not conducive to strong sales growth. That doesn't mean one shouldn't be cautious, but there is a fine line between anticipating future problems  and allowing fear to inform my selling choices.

It is reasonable for a customer to inquire about the terms of the sale and seek reassurance from the seller. Some buyers have been burned on eBay by less than reputable sellers. Even with careful vetting, they can slip thru. So if a potential buyer asks, i answer, regardless of how banal the question might be. (Not to take away from good sellers who are preyed upon by bad buyers—but that is another conversation.)

Low feedback buyers are not a problem to worry about. Everyone started at zero feedback. Trying to determine a scammer from a legit buyer cannot be ascertained thru a low feedback score alone. New buyers need to feel welcome here not held up to constant suspicion.

Not saying this to the OP, but just as a general comment: It is a self pepetuating problem to block new buyers out of fear. Sellers complain about no sales, but then shoot themselves in the proverbial foot because they are anxious about possible problems with the sale in the future.

Anticipating the worst  rather than trusting one’s ability to handle issues if they arise, can hurt sales.

But i blame eBay for sellers’ fear of buyers, of lowered service metrics, of negs and defects, of opened cases and forced returns. In a climate of us against them, pitting sellers against buyers.

It doesn't need to be this way.

[lovemypommy]

I agree with much you have posted. Have to say I very rarely block and don't see a potential buyer asking questions as a problem...with that being said, in this particular situation you have someone asking multiple times for a discount and then asking about returning? That sounds like a problem to me and I'm trying to be proactive here.

I also agree that no/low feedback buyers tend to not be something to worry about. Not sure where that was implied in my narrative, perhaps that was just an important point you wanted to bring up as general good advice? 

I'd like to think that I am a conscientious seller and treat my buyers (and the merchandise they buy) the way I'd want myself and my purchases to be treated. This includes responding to all questions (no matter how inane) politely, packinging carefully, shipping relatively quickly, etc. Unfortunately the eBay environment isn't always conducive to us as sellers, so of course we need to judge each issue (or potential issue) on it's own merit as it arises.

The points you bring up are valid...just think that they aren't representative of my OP, however I do appreciate what you have to add to the conversation. 

[lamber9347]

This was a very nice reply, kudos to you for not getting upset and understanding the previous poster was giving an honest and fair opinion. I rarely see responses as nice and correct as yours so wanted to thank you....

[city*satins]

Blocking an interested party because they asked questions is not conducive to strong sales growth. 

Generally I agree with this, but I have to say that holiday sales represent a very high risk to sellers.  Sales growth doesn't mean much to a seller who doesn't get to keep the money from those sales.

At this time of year, a lot of buyers are looking for Christmas gifts.  Even without questions, Christmas shoppers represent a very high risk for returns.  Returns on Christmas purchases are the highest industry-wide.  In 2017 for example, the holiday return rate was 28%.  Large stores may be able to survive this but small sellers often can't.

For that reason, I typically shut down my sales completely or almost completely during the month of December.

A question like the OP received, is in my opinion, a big red flag that the buyer, having already asked questions that suggest that she has a goal of getting a price break on an already discounted item, is now signalling that price notwithstanding, there's a good chance that on December 26 or a few days later, there'll be an incoming Return Request.   

[wastingtime101]

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@lovemypommy wrote:

Now I'm in a quandary as I decide whether to just go ahead and ship as I know now that eBay considers it ok for people to get around being blocked as long as "they really want the item". 

WWYD?

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Cancel problem with buyer's address.

Report buyer to eBay for circumventing your block.

Add the 2nd ID to your blocked list.

Keep watching to see if you get more sales circumventing your blocks.

eBay no longer stands behind buyers who circumvent as long as you're proactive about taking steps to stop the transaction and report them.

[city*satins]

WWYD

Sadly, eBay has seemed to have forgotten that we sellers were not given the Blocked Bidder List simply to protect ourselves from auction interference and malicious buying.   We use the BBL to protect ourselves from buyers who have given us reason to think that they are a high risk for a problem transaction that can harm us financially (not just reputationally)

As a result of this bizarre change of thinking, it appears that eBay staff in a position to help us sellers, have confused  Bypassing a block with Malicious Buying and tied it to feedback, explaining to us (rather condescendingly, I have to say) that yes, well, if the buyer bypasses your block and buys from you, and then leave bad feedback for you because of the block, we'll look at that and might remove the negative feedback. But meanwhile you should go ahead and ship.

Gag me with a spoon. That was not what the BBL was created for. Neither was it the reason that bypassing a block was made into a policy violation.

But for now, we appear to have to simply deal with this nonsense, ship the item, wait for the shoe to drop, and meanwhile, report the buyer for bypassing your block, and receive no support whatsoever from eBay nor, near as I can tell, expect no consequences whatsoever for the buyer who did it.   

The confidentiality of reports notwithstanding and the blues assurances on these boards that they do indeed investigate such reports, there is little doubt that this is one type of policy violation eBay doesn't give even the tiniest flip about and won't do anything about unless it starts to take up customer support time dealing with feedback removal.  Meanwhile, we sellers can pound sand and should be grateful that most buyers who find themselves blocked, give up right away and don't employ ways to bypass the BBL.

Short answer - you're going to have to ship.

[fern*wood]

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@lovemypommy wrote:

Now I'm in a quandary as I decide whether to just go ahead and ship as I know now that eBay considers it ok for people to get around being blocked as long as "they really want the item". 

WWYD?

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Supposedly this policy has changed and ebay is supposed to protect a seller.  I've not read much about how it has worked out for anyone not shipping, though.

[wastingtime101]

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@trinton@ebay wrote in this post :

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as a part of our 2019 Spring Seller Update, we announced protections for exactly this situation. Previously, eBay would have to determine a definitive link between two accounts to offer protections. Now we offer the same protection for sellers who have reason to believe two accounts are linked, such as what you describe. You can report the buyer, cancel the orders, and add the new account to your blocked list if you would like. A specific reason will be added later for these kinds of cancellations but for now you can use the "Problem with buyer's address" option, no problem. You will be protected from any defects or feedback issues that may arise.

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