eBay

twnpopcards · ‎10-15-2019

One more bit of information that will probably effect our online Sales as Ebay now is monetizing the collection of Sales Tax it collects into more revenue for their pockets from the Sales TAx that is collected. I will lay odds that CA is not the only state where these type of agreements are going to start popping up.

Just read an article that Ebay is now going to get to keep some of the Sales Tax it collects from CA residents. Californians not only have State Sales, but also County and some have District Sales Tax as Well. The City of San Jose and Ebay have come to an agreement whereby Ebay will consider all of the CA (at least) as having originated in San Jose so that city will get all of the district revenue collected by Ebay and in return has agreed to give 30% back to Ebay on any amounts collected over $5 million in a year. So not only does not the money not get allocated correctly to the tax districts that both the buyer and sellers live in, but Ebay is now going to get keep part of the money that they collect!!!!

So not only is Ebay NOT the Seller of Record and starting November 1 is pushing the Sales Tax processing fees off on the individual Sellers they are now not even going to remit the money to the proper tax authorities while basically claiming they are now the Seller of Record. The Governor already has a bill on his desk that will make such deals illegal and now has a good indication of why such a law is needed. Ebay is going to get 30% of the 1% Sales tax over $5 million per year that San jose is going to now try and claim as theirs even though Ebay has no inventory to sell or that is located in San Jose. I see a nice court battle opening up over this one in the very near future as well as more and more buyers deciding to buy locally so at least their Sales Tax money goes where it is supposed to and not in Ebays pockets.

Here is the link to the article i read.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/10/01/editorial-california-sales-tax-kickback-schemes-should-be-ban...

go-bad-chicken · ‎10-17-2019

Unfortunately it appears that eBay has no moral compass whatsoever. They have essentially stated through their actions that they are just fine if children in other California jurisdictions go hungry as long as the do it outside the San Jose city limits. I hope that in the near future the city Santa Cruz and its mob citizens storms over the hill with pitch forks in hand and takes their money back.

What I would be very interested in knowing is who orginated this tax diversion scheme? The city of San Jose or eBay?

twnpopcards · ‎10-17-2019

@mam98031 wrote:
No I do not think it is the same amount of work, but this is as they tell us all the time, another cost of doing business on the Internet or on their platform.

Not the same thing at all. New laws were passed that Ebay has to adhere to. They have no choice in the matter whatsoever.

If any of us don't like the rules on Ebay, we don't have to sell here. So we have a choice.

Your state agree to the fees they are paying Ebay. That isn't Ebay's fault. They are a corporation the negotiated fees for a service they are rendering. Your State agreed to the pricing. If you have a problem with how much they are paying Ebay, you need to fight it with your State Representatives. They are the ones with the power to change it.

You keep saying that our state agreed to this. But the State DID NOT agree to this at all. A single city in a huge state decided that they wanted all of the money from the local Sales Tax given to them and I am sure it did not take much to convince Ebay to state that all sales are now generated from San Jose so that they both make out like bandits while those who are paying and supposed to share in the tax revenues are having their share of the revenue wrongfully taken and given to San Jose and Ebay. You are correct that this is something that has to be handled by the legislature and hopefully will be very quickly, but if those that live here do not hear about it, they will not know to contact their representatives to voice their opinion.

You are correct that we all have a choice as to where we sell and also where we buy and Ebays choices lately have resulted in fewer and fewer sales happening as more and more customers leave for other sites. I would have hoped that Ebay would have made a moral choice to do what is right and hope that this type of choice going forward would maybe help them start to grow again, but sadly this will wind up in the news and Ebay will wind up getting more bad publicity which they really do not need while they are in the transition stage of trying to find a new CEO.

This next CEO choice is going to be critical for Ebay as they need a completely fresh approach to things and their dealings with both Buyers and Sellers so hopefully they can turn the corner and start becoming a significant player in the ecommerce market again instead of losing more and more market share each and every quarter. I have been Selling and buying on Ebay since 1998, although both my sales and purchases have been lowered in reaction to policy changes they have made and the addition of new sites to sell on that have more traffic than Ebay currently does. I would love nothing more than to be able to say that Ebay has made the necessary changes that are bringing traffic back and only need to list items on one site as that would greatly reduce my work load. I have no problem with Ebay making money on my sales and have never complained about the FVF being to high because I was also making money, but somewhere along the line Ebay decided that they needed to make more money without the Sellers also making more money and that is when the downturn began and has not stopped since. This Sales Tax deal is just another move in that direction.

mam98031 · ‎10-17-2019

@twnpopcards wrote:
@mam98031 wrote:
No I do not think it is the same amount of work, but this is as they tell us all the time, another cost of doing business on the Internet or on their platform.

Not the same thing at all. New laws were passed that Ebay has to adhere to. They have no choice in the matter whatsoever.

If any of us don't like the rules on Ebay, we don't have to sell here. So we have a choice.

Your state agree to the fees they are paying Ebay. That isn't Ebay's fault. They are a corporation the negotiated fees for a service they are rendering. Your State agreed to the pricing. If you have a problem with how much they are paying Ebay, you need to fight it with your State Representatives. They are the ones with the power to change it.
You keep saying that our state agreed to this. But the State DID NOT agree to this at all. A single city in a huge state decided that they wanted all of the money from the local Sales Tax given to them and I am sure it did not take much to convince Ebay to state that all sales are now generated from San Jose so that they both make out like bandits while those who are paying and supposed to share in the tax revenues are having their share of the revenue wrongfully taken and given to San Jose and Ebay. You are correct that this is something that has to be handled by the legislature and hopefully will be very quickly, but if those that live here do not hear about it, they will not know to contact their representatives to voice their opinion.

You are correct that we all have a choice as to where we sell and also where we buy and Ebays choices lately have resulted in fewer and fewer sales happening as more and more customers leave for other sites. I would have hoped that Ebay would have made a moral choice to do what is right and hope that this type of choice going forward would maybe help them start to grow again, but sadly this will wind up in the news and Ebay will wind up getting more bad publicity which they really do not need while they are in the transition stage of trying to find a new CEO.

This next CEO choice is going to be critical for Ebay as they need a completely fresh approach to things and their dealings with both Buyers and Sellers so hopefully they can turn the corner and start becoming a significant player in the ecommerce market again instead of losing more and more market share each and every quarter. I have been Selling and buying on Ebay since 1998, although both my sales and purchases have been lowered in reaction to policy changes they have made and the addition of new sites to sell on that have more traffic than Ebay currently does. I would love nothing more than to be able to say that Ebay has made the necessary changes that are bringing traffic back and only need to list items on one site as that would greatly reduce my work load. I have no problem with Ebay making money on my sales and have never complained about the FVF being to high because I was also making money, but somewhere along the line Ebay decided that they needed to make more money without the Sellers also making more money and that is when the downturn began and has not stopped since. This Sales Tax deal is just another move in that direction.

You are right, I should have said the city government structure, not the state.

mam98031 • Volunteer Community Member • Buyer/Seller since 1999

gamersbaystore · ‎10-17-2019

The state of California is the world's largest economy, even greater than that of the entire UK. Taxes collected on billions is not a drop in the bucket. The wealthiest place on earth, and the poorest, a total disgrace to humanity. Either way, ebay has no right to tax dollars, I don't pay taxes to hand out free money to people.

I guess I should start charging buyers special taxes and keep all the money for myself as well. This is exactly what ebay and San Jose are doing.

gamersbaystore · ‎10-17-2019

That 30% is the amount of collected tax revenue that ebay gets to keep. A giant fraud. I find it troubling too that San Jose's political leaders can just make up the laws as they go along and do whatever they like with the public's money.

There's nothing mysterious about California's politics either. The political leaders are just like Trump and every other politician, they work to create welfare for the rich while starving the working class.

mam98031 · ‎10-17-2019

@gamersbaystore wrote:
The state of California is the world's largest economy, even greater than that of the entire UK. Taxes collected on billions is not a drop in the bucket. The wealthiest place on earth, and the poorest, a total disgrace to humanity. Either way, ebay has no right to tax dollars, I don't pay taxes to hand out free money to people.

I guess I should start charging buyers special taxes and keep all the money for myself as well. This is exactly what ebay and San Jose are doing.

As the OP reminded me, this isn't about the entire state of CA, but one city in CA. So at this point billions of $$ aren't involved. I have no clue if the balance of the state will follow San Jose's lead. But the issue is local and you need to make your voice heard within the government of your city / state. You have every right to feel the way you do. Just aim it at the people that can actually help, which is your state and local government. They have to approve these things, Ebay doesn't just decide one day that they can get these fees. They have to be approved and accepted by the state / local government.

mam98031 • Volunteer Community Member • Buyer/Seller since 1999

twnpopcards · ‎10-17-2019

@mam98031 wrote:
@gamersbaystore wrote:
The state of California is the world's largest economy, even greater than that of the entire UK. Taxes collected on billions is not a drop in the bucket. The wealthiest place on earth, and the poorest, a total disgrace to humanity. Either way, ebay has no right to tax dollars, I don't pay taxes to hand out free money to people.

I guess I should start charging buyers special taxes and keep all the money for myself as well. This is exactly what ebay and San Jose are doing.
As the OP reminded me, this isn't about the entire state of CA, but one city in CA. So at this point billions of $$ aren't involved. I have no clue if the balance of the state will follow San Jose's lead. But the issue is local and you need to make your voice heard within the government of your city / state. You have every right to feel the way you do. Just aim it at the people that can actually help, which is your state and local government. They have to approve these things, Ebay doesn't just decide one day that they can get these fees. They have to be approved and accepted by the state / local government.

The amount of Sales Tax that Ebay and San Jose will be splitting is based on the Total California Sales times 1% which is approximately what many cities should receive from these sales. But instead of just getting their share of that 1%, San jose is now laying claim to all of the local sales tax that Ebay is collecting. I will be curious to see what Ebay does with the rest as many districts have additional amounts of Sales Tax added on to the States 7.25% including where i live where the Sales Tax rate is actually 9.5% and many other cities Sales Tax Rates are 10.25%, so is Ebay going to collect the correct amount of Tax and consider that also San Joses share? I know they are collecting the 9.5% from me because before i converted both of my accounts to Sales Tax exempt I saw the amount of tax they were about to charge me.

So there are going to be many questions that remain to be answered before all the dust settles. BTW - I did a quick calculation and if California Sales on Ebay were $10 billion, and only the additional Sales Tax of 1% were charged and collected, Ebay stands to clear another $30 million per year under this agreement, which is way more than they would ever consider spending to handle the collection and remittance of Sales Tax to all the states they are required to.

clu3 · ‎10-17-2019

It's not unusual for states to give the businesses that are collecting the tax a percentage for the trouble. I think it's generally 5% of the tax collected. 30% sounds like a pretty extreme number - and according to the article it's designed to cut out other areas of CA from receiving their share of taxes. I agree it sounds rather fishy.

femmefan1946 · ‎10-17-2019

It does depend on the taxing authority , but when we were collecting sales taxes for Ontario Canada, we got a small rebate on the amount we remitted as a fee for doing the paperwork.

Apparently ON doesn't do that anymore, which would tend to make me think that some businesses would not be remitting in full (not smart to mess with the Revenue) or less often if the amount collected was small.

We don't collect the tax, eBay does. No reason to get any rebate for work we don't do.

On the other hand, eBay should look at refunding sellers for the admittedly small amounts Paypal is charging us because they are processing the entire payment , including those taxes that we never touch.

twnpopcards · ‎10-18-2019

@femmefan1946 wrote:
It does depend on the taxing authority , but when we were collecting sales taxes for Ontario Canada, we got a small rebate on the amount we remitted as a fee for doing the paperwork.
Apparently ON doesn't do that anymore, which would tend to make me think that some businesses would not be remitting in full (not smart to mess with the Revenue) or less often if the amount collected was small.

We don't collect the tax, eBay does. No reason to get any rebate for work we don't do.
On the other hand, eBay should look at refunding sellers for the admittedly small amounts Paypal is charging us because they are processing the entire payment , including those taxes that we never touch.

roflmreo - When has Ebay ever shared revenue with its sellers. In fact they just changed the way the Sales Tax is processed by Paypal so that the Sellers will have to pay the 2.96 - 5% discount fee on the sales tax beginning November 1. So now Ebay is going to get a Rebate from San Jose of 30% of the Local Sales Tax they collect for ALL of CA while the CA Sellers also have to pay the discount on the Sales Tax because Ebay refuses to be the Seller of Record, which means they should not have the ability nor right to classify that all of the local Sales Tax should go to San Jose. Just shows the moral fiber of the politicians in San Jose is right in sync with Corporate America which now seems to run this country.

equid0x · ‎10-19-2019

@mam98031 wrote:
Ebay is a for profit company. I have no clue as to why so many members thing Ebay should just be doing things for free with no way to make money off the process. Why is it wrong for Ebay to be paid for their services? I don't get it.

Sellers want to be paid for their services. Sellers want to make a profit. Sellers complain with Ebay financials are announced and they aren't as profitable as they would like. Yet those same people complain about stuff like this.

Ebay has every right to be paid for their services. The states should be paying Ebay for processing these taxes. It give the states an effective and efficient way to collect taxes they would otherwise be very challenged to collect, if they could collect them at all.

If for any reason you feel your state has gone too far and is compensating Ebay and other marketplaces too much. You need to go to your state representatives and make sure they know your opinions and concerns. You have to change it at the state level.

It constitutionally illegal. That's why.

equid0x · ‎10-19-2019

@jobs-7 wrote:
Ebay has a "right" to be paid for collecting sales tax? Does every other company that collects sales tax have that same right? Ebay also collects and remits federal income tax, state income tax, medicare, and social security withheld from their employees' payroll. Do you think they should get a chunk of that too? Collecting and remitting certain taxes is a "cost of doing business" for MOST businesses, not something they get a windfall from. The fact some are OK with a company sharing in the taxes they collect is shocking, but not surprising.

In eBay's defense... a private company in the state could do this, too. However, if eBay is collecting and keeping the benefit, I don't see why they should since the seller is the entity that took on the burden, not eBay. eBay gets paid either way.

equid0x · ‎10-19-2019

@the*dog*ate*my*tablecloth wrote:
Yes eBay has a right to keep some of the sales tax. In many States companies get a discount on their sales tax payment when they pay early or online. Why should EBay be denied something millions of other companies get?

https://blog.taxjar.com/state-sales-tax-discounts/

eBay isn't the seller. Why should the seller be denied what is rightfully theirs?

equid0x · ‎10-19-2019

@thehonorabletrader wrote:
@twnpopcards wrote:
@mam98031 wrote:
Ebay is a for profit company. I have no clue as to why so many members thing Ebay should just be doing things for free with no way to make money off the process. Why is it wrong for Ebay to be paid for their services? I don't get it.

Sellers want to be paid for their services. Sellers want to make a profit. Sellers complain with Ebay financials are announced and they aren't as profitable as they would like. Yet those same people complain about stuff like this.

Ebay has every right to be paid for their services. The states should be paying Ebay for processing these taxes. It give the states an effective and efficient way to collect taxes they would otherwise be very challenged to collect, if they could collect them at all.

If for any reason you feel your state has gone too far and is compensating Ebay and other marketplaces too much. You need to go to your state representatives and make sure they know your opinions and concerns. You have to change it at the state level.
I completely understand that Ebay is a for profit company and have no problems paying them for the services that they are supposed to provide. I also have no problem paying Ebay their commission when I make a sale, but I do have a problem when they are being paid with TAX DOLLARS from a city that does not even have the right to do what they have worked out with Ebay. If Ebay was the Seller of Record, then San Jose might have the right to negotiate this deal, but they are not. As to contacting my state Representatives, i already have and encourage others whose Taxes Ebay is managing to keep to also do so. That is exactly why I made this post, to inform others in the community of what is happening and then they can make their own minds up as to what they care to do. Its bad enough when cities and states give these companies large tax breaks to bring jobs to their area, but at least the citizens of that state or city are getting some benefit from it. But for San jose to agree to give Ebay monies they are not entitled to, and for Ebay to agree to misappropriate the Sales Taxes they are collecting, is just wrong, period. If you feel that this is no problem, then contact your local government and tell them you would like to have Ebay take funds from their already short funded programs and arrange for Ebay to have those funds. These State Sales Taxes were not imposed on buyers so that Ebay could take a portion of them for their bottom line, unless they are also going to make the same arrangements with all other sellers in their state that are collecting Sales Tax on their behalf.

Personally i am not in favor of the newly imposed Sales Taxes being imposed on all buyers regardless of where the Seller is located, but that is what the politicians that were voted into office by the majority of the population wanted, so it is what it is. But this wrongful appropriation of funds from other districts in the State of CA and who knows how many other agreements are in place, needs to be fixed as i should not be paying Taxes on items so that Ebay can keep 30% of what should be going to my city for the needs it has.
Perspective
As stated, many states allow businesses and sellers to keep a small portion of sales tax collected as a way to pay for the cost of the collection. So eBay isn't the only company benefiting from this. In fact, if you are a business and you are collecting sales tax and you are not taking advantage of programs like this I would argue you are not the smartest business owner.

There are over 30 states that have sales tax collection laws for online sales. Each state has a completely different and 100% unique law that has nothing to do with the other 29+ state laws. So eBay has to for each state, pay attorneys to review the laws, then pay employees and designers to design a sales tax collection system for that specific state, then pay programmers to actually write the software that does it all, then pay staff members to reconcile for each state and ensure each state is getting the funds they are supposed to for the sellers. I wouldn't be surprised if this was 6-figures each month for each state. So yes, I certainly hope they can recoup some of these costs from the states that are making them do all this in the first place.

eBay's problems are not the sellers' problems.

equid0x · ‎10-19-2019

@thehonorabletrader wrote:
@twnpopcards wrote:
@mam98031 wrote:
Ebay is a for profit company. I have no clue as to why so many members thing Ebay should just be doing things for free with no way to make money off the process. Why is it wrong for Ebay to be paid for their services? I don't get it.

Sellers want to be paid for their services. Sellers want to make a profit. Sellers complain with Ebay financials are announced and they aren't as profitable as they would like. Yet those same people complain about stuff like this.

Ebay has every right to be paid for their services. The states should be paying Ebay for processing these taxes. It give the states an effective and efficient way to collect taxes they would otherwise be very challenged to collect, if they could collect them at all.

If for any reason you feel your state has gone too far and is compensating Ebay and other marketplaces too much. You need to go to your state representatives and make sure they know your opinions and concerns. You have to change it at the state level.
I completely understand that Ebay is a for profit company and have no problems paying them for the services that they are supposed to provide. I also have no problem paying Ebay their commission when I make a sale, but I do have a problem when they are being paid with TAX DOLLARS from a city that does not even have the right to do what they have worked out with Ebay. If Ebay was the Seller of Record, then San Jose might have the right to negotiate this deal, but they are not. As to contacting my state Representatives, i already have and encourage others whose Taxes Ebay is managing to keep to also do so. That is exactly why I made this post, to inform others in the community of what is happening and then they can make their own minds up as to what they care to do. Its bad enough when cities and states give these companies large tax breaks to bring jobs to their area, but at least the citizens of that state or city are getting some benefit from it. But for San jose to agree to give Ebay monies they are not entitled to, and for Ebay to agree to misappropriate the Sales Taxes they are collecting, is just wrong, period. If you feel that this is no problem, then contact your local government and tell them you would like to have Ebay take funds from their already short funded programs and arrange for Ebay to have those funds. These State Sales Taxes were not imposed on buyers so that Ebay could take a portion of them for their bottom line, unless they are also going to make the same arrangements with all other sellers in their state that are collecting Sales Tax on their behalf.

Personally i am not in favor of the newly imposed Sales Taxes being imposed on all buyers regardless of where the Seller is located, but that is what the politicians that were voted into office by the majority of the population wanted, so it is what it is. But this wrongful appropriation of funds from other districts in the State of CA and who knows how many other agreements are in place, needs to be fixed as i should not be paying Taxes on items so that Ebay can keep 30% of what should be going to my city for the needs it has.
Also I would not say anything is misappropriated. For each state, eBay collects the sales tax, eBay then sends the sales tax to that state. That state then gives funds to the company collecting the tax....more accurately it says "keep a certain percentage". The physical exchange of the funds to the state and the funds back from the state does not change the fact that the STATE is using tax payer dollars to compensate companies for this. Basically it can't be misappropriated because the state law is what dictates how the funds are used.

Again, you can be upset and I recommend you voice your opinion, but don't spin it as something eBay or anybody else is profiting off of. Nobody wants this tax including eBay. eBay has lobbied against it for years and has asked all their members to sign petitions against it and they have actively tried to stop it and still are actively trying to stop it.

I get frustrated by people thinking eBay is a co-conspirator in a scheme to take money away from buyers and sellers when in reality the States are trying to make it more fair for their local business.