Customer Mad about Signature Confirmation on a $390 order............???

[katzrul15]

Vintage lego set, discontinued since 2002.  Sold for $390 with tax/shipping, etc.  We used signature confirmation on this order.  Evidently, UPS has left 3 notices for this Buyer.

Recd an email today letting me know what an Appaloosa Horse's Patoot  we are for requiring a signature.  When I offered to have it routed to her office/place of business, the "reply" was that they (wait for it) "work from home".......................

Should we just redact the shipment and move on?  Not willing to get scammed (AGAIN) on another HV lego set that is discontinued.  

9 days until Santa comes......................9 Days until Santa comes.....................9 Days.........................!!  🎅

[pjcdn2005]

I think that for many of us in Canada, it isn't as big a deal to pick up a package as we can usually do that at a postal outlet in the area. Most of those outlets are open in the evening as well.

We have a community mailbox so any package requiring a signature or with money owing for customs has to be picked up at the postal outlet as there is no door to door mail service in this area.

[duffy4444]

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@inhawaii wrote:

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...$201 to $749 ... What are you going to gain from signature confirmation vs.  regular tracking?

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@inhawaii:

   I'll tell you what you gain: A much better chance of NOT seeing your payment refunded on a possible ultimate scam or porch theft or misplaced delivery. It occasionally goes that way here even with regular tracking showing delivery, and especially with cc chargebacks.

   This happened to me a couple years ago on Amazon: I sold a small item there for around $10. The tracking showed delivered just like it should, but the buyer said he didn't get it. Amazon forced the refund even though the tracking showed delivered. I appealed and talked to a real agent there, who said that I would have been protected if I had used signature confirmation. I said, "On a small $10 sale? That puts me at a loss on the item". They said, "Then raise your selling price by about $3 to compensate for having to use signature confirmation."

   Granted, this happened to me on Amazon, and not eBay -- yet.  But I can see where there have been some sellers here who have lost on items sold well under $750, where the seller was shafted and forced to refund even with standard tracking showing delivery, particularly with the specter of a cc chargeback.

   So regardless of eBay's $750 SC requirement, I sometimes use SC on orders as low as $50, if the details of the sale set off alarm bells in my fertile mind. So far, no problems occasionally using SC here in the 24+ years I've been selling.

Cheers, Duffy

[love4dolls]

This is a puzzling question...and do I have an answer..NO!  I've been selling for a long time and have dealt with more problems than I can go into...people that buy your item and then it gets delivered and then complain it's got a chip on the cookie jar and they do a switch-a-roo!    Or you get something that has been glued back together and it's not yours!  It use to be if you sent an item and had a tracking number, that was all you needed!!  Now people are sending things back that aren't what you sent them??? go figure!  Yeah lots of scamming going around and unfortunately ebay takes the buyer's side most of the time too many times.  I don't know if I would go through the trouble of signature confirmation for the additional fee...as it is I'm barely breaking even on some items.  I doubt someone would pay $3 for a $10 item. 

[itsjustasprain]

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@love4dolls wrote:

This is a puzzling question...and do I have an answer..NO! 

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Which question are you answering here?

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@love4dolls wrote:

I've been selling for a long time and have dealt with more problems than I can go into...people that buy your item and then it gets delivered and then complain it's got a chip on the cookie jar and they do a switch-a-roo!    Or you get something that has been glued back together and it's not yours!  It use to be if you sent an item and had a tracking number, that was all you needed!!  Now people are sending things back that aren't what you sent them??? 

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You are confusing a Not As Described dispute with an Item Not Received dispute. For an INR, what we are talking about here, you only need a Delivered scan from Delivery Confirmation to win an INR for a shipment of $750 or less. Signature Confirmation is not needed until the sale price exceeds $750.

If the buyer thinks his delivery address is unsafe he can certainly pay the extra fee to request that the seller add Signature Confirmation to his order. A porch theft after tracking shows delivery (to the correct City and ZIP) is not the sellers fault and an INR on that basis is not going to be won by the buyer.

[yuzuha]

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@soh.maryl wrote:

So, if a buyer opens an INR case, and there's tracking showing the package was delivered, you believe you could legitimately open an INR case if the package was stolen from your porch?

My understanding here has always been quite the opposite.  

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I can say from personal experience that you can't. As long as tracking shows delivered, the seller will always win an INR.

[shado-x]

Because I won't lie, I'd be SUPREMELY POed to have a seller slap a signature confirmation on something when I wasn't expecting it.

High priced items should receive Signature Confirmation; morover, eBay has a mandatory price range that requires it.  I do it for orders that are high, but tell buyers in the invoice if they are auction winners (at no extra charge).  If it were a Buy It Now, that should be stated upfront, I agree.  UPS (or whatever shipping carrier was used) provides the option to pick up the package at the location it was sent from that serves your household, or the buyer can call the carrier to arrange to have the item delivered at a certain time.   For a $390.00 item, I am with the OP.

[sin-n-dex]

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@stephenmorgan wrote:

I had a valuable item sent to me by UPS that required signature.  I fully expected that if I were not home during a delivery attempt I would have to pick it up at the UPS Facility.  Nope, they just left it in the yard.  With Fed X I  often have to go to their location to get a missed delivery.

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That was my similar experience with Canada Post on an EMS item from France requiring signature. I don't often order "very expensive" things, maybe a few hundred is my typical order of supplies (like a stamp album, or new coins/tokens). But this package was all silver coins and cost the B&M store 2K. Since I did the order for them (and was getting stuff for my store too), it was shipped to my address instead of the store. Usually I send things to my PO Box to ensure expensive stuff is not just left at my front door.

C.

[katzrul15]

Buyer Update:

They did sign for it a little after 6pm tonight (at least my email update states 6:13 pm)

Appreciate all the thoughts on this topic. 

We each have varying business modules - what works for us, might not work for others.

And to Pam - going to ignore your baiting.  I post with a posting ID -  intimating I am potentially a liar when I stated it is in the listing is not only not true, but not nice.  I have no intention of ever disclosing my listings on this board again.  

What would I gain from lying about it?  MANY of our listings state in ALL caps and underlined that it will require signature confirmation at delivery. 

We do not do auctions, only fixed price with immediate payment.  Any buyer could buy from someone else.  If they do not read - that is their issue as the listing clearly states it.  Fully appreciate other Sellers may/will disagree. 

Thank you, again.  Lively discussion for sure - certainly one that several are passionate about.  🙃

[bauble-babes]

"Could you afford paying for a $390 item and it being shipped to the wrong address and tracking shows it was delivered?"

With USPS, a photo is taken of the address when an item is delivered. So, if your package shows delivered on tracking, but you didn't receive it, all you have to do is contact your local post - via their records, they can see precisely where the item was delivered. I don't know if FedEx or UPS do this, but they very well may as it protects them against scammers claiming INR.

This scenario has happened to a few of my buyers over the years and they all sent me freak out messages.  I told them what to do and bingo, all got their packages back within a day or so.

[albertabrightalberta]

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@itsjustasprain wrote:

You are confusing a Not As Described dispute with an Item Not Received dispute. For an INR, what we are talking about here, you only need a Delivered scan from Delivery Confirmation to win an INR for a shipment of $750 or less. Signature Confirmation is not needed until the sale price exceeds $750.

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Minor correction to your post: DC is for <$750 (not $750 or less). SC is for $750 or more. (Although it's just a penny, I'm sure there are cases in which that penny made the difference between protection and no protection.)

signature confirmation requirements.

Seller – When should I purchase signature confirmation in order to be protected against an item not received case or a payment dispute?

If the order has a total cost (including shipping costs and any taxes) of $750 or more, you're required to purchase signature confirmation to be protected if a buyer reports an item not received or opens a payment dispute. If you are shipping internationally, see the signature confirmation thresholds table below to see if signature confirmation is required for the shipment.

Buyer – When should I purchase signature confirmation for an item I want to return?

If the item was purchased on eBay.com and the total cost of the item was $750 or more, you are required to purchase signature confirmation to be protected under the eBay Money Back Guarantee. If the item was purchased on a different eBay site, see the signature confirmation thresholds table below for guidance on when to purchase signature confirmation.

[house*of*paws]

Hi @katzrul15 

I wouldn’t consider balking at SC a ‘red flag’.  Many mail carriers don’t ring doorbells … just leave notices and expect items to be picked up at the post office.

Also, when the pandemic began … carriers were told to sign for packages themselves … which removed the whole point of adding SC when not required.

[katzrul15]

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@house*of*paws wrote:

Hi @katzrul15 

I wouldn’t consider balking at SC a ‘red flag’.  Many mail carriers don’t ring doorbells … just leave notices and expect items to be picked up at the post office.

Also, when the pandemic began … carriers were told to sign for packages themselves … which removed the whole point of adding SC when not required.

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Thanks - this is UPS, not USPS......the parcel is quite large/heavy, so we used UPS.

Buyer signed for it late yesterday per UPS email update - per site 4 notices left b4 delivery.  Hoping the sale "sticks".   Thx!

[wcesl]

It sounds like your getting a bunch of flack - folks have different opinions about the situation.  

Bottom line:  its your business, do what you feel you need to do to be safe and make your money.  At that price point I would have done the same thing - I dont trust anyone.   And fwiw, it hits me as a red flag so I'd just move on.  But then I also expect buyers to read the *%$#*%@  full listing like a responsible person too.  🙂

[femmefan1946]

Not only should you not re-route the Undeliverable package, and Block the buyer, but eBay will not require you to refund one red penny.

A copypasta of eBay's policy on Undeliverable shipments.

UNDELIVERABLE ITEMS
https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy/ebay-money-back-guarantee-policy...
 
This is the part I'm referring to
 
Exclusions and special coverage when the buyer doesn't receive an item


Items collected by a third party on behalf of the buyer
Not covered


The buyer arranged their own shipping method, such as a courier pickup
Not covered


The buyer provided an invalid or incorrect address at checkout
Not covered

 
An ethical seller would refund the payment, less shipping costs, eBay fees, and international payment processing fees.
But it's my belief that eBay will not require any refund.
 
Hi @femmefan1946! You're correct in that a refused package is on the buyer and not the sellers responsibility to refund. As long as tracking shows the package was refused, then we would side with a seller if the buyer opened an Item Not Received claim. 
 
I agree that I would not withhold all the money, but it is up to the seller if they would like to withhold shipping, refund the buyer entirely, or keep it all. If the seller is okay with refunding the buyer entirely and being out the shipping costs, then they can cancel the transaction using the buyer requested option since in essence, they did by refusing the package. If the seller wants to retain the shipping costs, then they can message the buyer a heads up (not a requirement but a nice thing to do) and then refund them partially through this flow here. 
Velvet,


[sextons-sweet-deals]

With USPS, a photo is taken of the address when an item is delivered.

totally disagree! I don't need to say anything more!