The cost of refunding-- it's not just an eBay problem.

[femmefan1946]

https://www.ecommercebytes.com/2022/04/17/returns-cost-sellers-a-whopping-21-percent-of-order-value/

Well worth reading.

The good  news about 'fast delivery' is that buyers seem to be a little more sanguine in their definition of 'fast' than we are led to believe. 

And here's the original post, not the journalist's take on it.

https://www.pitneybowes.com/us/blog/returnament-2022.html

[2013grotz]

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@vannvo_0 wrote:

You see, if you're returning an item to me because of SNAD / Defective (or some such reason) and I receive an item that appears to be in perfect working order and is exactly the item being sold... I have questions, because as a retailer it is my job to reduce returns.

Indeed.  That's a lot of my issue with returns.  Most all of the returns I've had to endure as a seller have been frivolous ones in some way or another.  Now, as an experiment, I've tried turning on TRS (as long as I have it, I'm going to go to Above Standard one of these days), so I'm going to see how that turns out.  Specifically put, whether the amount of sales it might encourage/bring via ebay's algorithms can outweigh the grievous (I've found) costs of those returns.  But sadly, as a seller, one really can't do much to mitigate these kind of problems or bring a penalty upon the seller.  As an example, an item I sold that got returned (Defective) that turned out to be in perfect working order.  I complained to ebay and ate the cost (about 200% of my asking price), but hard to not see any real good.  Or an INAD where the customer (drum roll) complained about the very things the ad stated clearly.  Even stuff like the neg that's currently on my account gets rather grating.

If it's a real defective item, broken upon delivery, stuff like that it's one thing and I never have problems returning if I can see that it's honestly that.  But in the end, the problem is returns are more bad for sellers than buyers in the end, especially with ebay's policies in dealing with buyers.

[d-k_treasures]

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@vannvo_0 wrote:

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@luckythewinner wrote:

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@norwegian_kt wrote:

This is a terrific report. Thank you to @femmefan1946 for sharing!

I would like to hear comments on this graph from the original report, however. Am I crazy or does it seem like 21% is far too low? (I haven't tried to re-create the math yet.) I mean, 15% of retailers reported their costs of returns were 80-90%. And if you add up the guys with over-50% cost, that's 55% of the retailers. Ack.

Did I miss something?

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The graph shows the percentage of retailers, not the percentage of their retail sales. 

What may be missing is whether the survey weighted the retailers based on their share of the overall sales.

If that is the case: 

If one of the retailers with a return rate of 15% has $1 billion in sales and one of the retailers with a return rate of 95% has $1 million in sales, then the weight of the 15% would be 1000 times greater than the weight of the 95%. 

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It doesn't matter, a pound of lead is not heavier than a pound of feathers.

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True, 10 pounds of lead is just as heavy as 10 pounds of feathers. 

Until you hit the dimensional weight charge. Then shipping is much higher for 10 pounds of feathers.

Which is why the main point of the PB survey is "more than two-thirds of the retailers we surveyed say they are trying to do something to lower their returns transportation and processing costs".

[carxtc]

Most eBay Returns are because eBay sends (LIKE recently bought) after going thru checkout.

They are directly abusing their (ORIGINAL eBAY Rule) Cannot Sell LIKE items, for example.. Like Nike, Like Coach, etc.. etc.. etc.  I have a very detailed complaint about this practice, and I contact buyers and ask them why they are asking for a Cancel Request or Return.  To my dismay - when I ask them and say, I can offer even a better Price they usually admit it was because they found a like item that ebay sent them directly after checking out.  ( In most cases its less than a 2% difference , and sadly - I explain why our part was a scosche higher, (see eBay Doesnt Know Quality Differences with items).  Differences between Copper Wire vs Aluminum Clad (is usually) a huge one, since we deal in the car audio section. I explain the price difference between what they ordered from me vs (the Like Item - thanks to eBay)!

-- This is exactly why LIKE* items are banned from listing in the first place.  To make a good buyer and seller experience, the platform shouldnt be pitting sellers and buyers (AFTER A SALE HAS BEEN COMPLETED).

Have a solution too. AM not like a whiny seller, I acutally want this site to return to their glory days.  Stop with the LIKE ITEMS, and maybe (another good idea) Holding Sales reaching a seller, for the same amount of time a buyer can send in a Cancel Request.  (this way it will automatically happen) - A buyer doesnt think a seller is trying to ram something down their throat, and it will help avoid a huge percentage of returns)... there is also the 3% chance they made an error in purchase; but again - if us sellers do not see the Order info, for the (1hour) or (45mins) and they want to cancel, it will cancel (without ever hitting our screen). Maybe Make this an OPT-in, like (immediate payment required).   -- Wow, the amount of NON-Paying buyers just gives me deja-vu of nightmares. 

[chapeau-noir]

I think the idea that 'most' retailers have free shipping/returns or that it is somehow 'table stakes' depends heavily on the market.  I purchase clothing, sports equipment and quite a few commodities online, and almost never get free shipping unless I purchase over a threshold (that is a popular method), and free returns is almost unheard of for anywhere I shop online, and I've been shopping online for years.  Those retailers where I might shop with free shipping/returns also have inflated prices (Zappo's is an example - the DH will shop there, I won't - they also have a base 35% return rate, which they don't care about because, well, it's baked into the price).

Prime or memberships is another matter, but depending on the scheme one may still be paying - I can buy from Costco Wholesale and get free shipping because I'm a Costco member.

[2013grotz]

The problem with comparing ebay to B&M in practice is that a B&M doesn't have their competitors all in the same space vying for sales with different operating policies there like it does here.  Then it doesn't have an external overlord pushing certain things and making winners and losers. 

Like for example, to legitimately offer free shipping and returns, along with the others associated costs of business (hiring a CPA for the taxes, fees, and so forth), I figure I'd have to raise all my prices by 75% to get into a legitimate safe area for all of those to happen and make what I do on here viable.  Problem is I got others next to me with lower prices that don't do any of those things, and even more so I got product dumpers that aren't taking their costs into account at all and vastly underselling past my shipping costs. 

So what is one to do with that?  Personally, if I wasn't just a guy trying to load stuff out of his closet (more or less), and treated what I do on here as a business, it would have shuttered long long ago for not paying for costs, much less giving me a salary to live on.  So really, the question begs from the other thread how anyone even manages to do this and get something appreciable back out of it.

[vannvo_0]

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@femmefan1946 wrote:

@ricarmic  who sells stamps on the dotCA site has a batch of standard letters too, which he is nice enough to share with other sellers who have problems he has dealt with.

He's been in mail order selling for decades and has a firm grasp on long distance customer relations.

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I wish it were simple, at least for me it wasn't...

It does at least to some degree take a level of experience...

But I can tell you, those drafted letters were specifically drafted for the purpose that they can be copied and pasted, and the benefit of doing that is it wastes little time and it allows me to keep my emotions out of it.

Needless to say those letters take a little doing, some time putting the professional into the wording, again keeping the emotions out is key... Beyond that, being super polite and down right sweet with the buyers is quite helpful as well, the saying goes "kill them with kindness."

We re-did our whole inventory, everything is labeled now...

Size of parcel, weight, and what's in it, all that goes on the label.

The location of the package is coded into the html of the listing as a "comment," it's invisible unless someone views the source (and then it's meaningless as it's just a short alphanumeric string in a comment).  

Last but not least... Every outgoing order MUST be triple checked, apparently as we get older mistakes creep in unnoticed so bad... Yes, I said triple checked.

Why, because of some crazy returns we've been having...

The lesson here is:  Eliminate all source of error on our end.

If that means more work, so be it.

The last part I'll share is this: 
I find when I work hard to make a living, I tend to stand up for myself a lot more effectively.

Not sure why that is so, but something about integrity and hard honest work wins?

[little.font.lord.leroy]

I haven't read all of the comments, but it seems people are reading the data wrong.

The 21% percent reflects the average loss (cost) as a percent of the total sale of a returned item. The data doesn't show that the number of returns have gone up, but rather the individual profit margin on those returns has shrunk. (duh)

If I sell $1,000 wedding bands with free shipping and it only costs me $5 to package and ship, and the return shipping costs $5, even factoring in restocking, the percent of loss is going to be rather low per item $10+stocking/$1,000.

But now that places like Walmart have a large online presence, you have someone who cut their finger and order a $3.00 box of band-aids to be delivered at a minimum shipping fee of $15 and by the time they get the package they stop bleeding and want to send it back, Costing Walmart $5 for free returns and the percent is going to be rather high.  $5+stocking/$18.

This data may reflect that consumers are making more smaller purchases on line, as well as the rising cost of shipping and wages.

[asset_liquidators]

Am I the only one who sees the irony in the one person who responded to the article. Bragging about how few returns they have and how many returns they do?

They go on to tell about their most recent return. "My last return was for a Microsoft controller in which the installation instruction were trash, I had to go to youtube to figure out how to install it, then it nearly toasted my computer and I lost 4 printers over it. What would you do with something like that. Return it".

They then "PS" to make sure everyone knows they have a degree in computer science. 

So they have a degree in computer science yet can't figure out how to install a controller and claim it "nearly toasted" their computer, and they "lost 4 printers over it". Something tells me it is not the controller that is the problem...smh

[kavfern-35]

good news

[ga-8370]

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@kavfern-35 wrote:

good news

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How was your eBay selling school today, passing all the classes?

[lumi-3900]

In fact, all I need to do to try to avoid this in the future is provide the buyer with the option to pay extra for Priority Mail Express and receive free shipping for regular priority mail in each listing. Nonetheless, they might pick the Ordinary need mail regardless request it to come in with the express without paying for it. They might do this by accident, not anticipating that the item won't arrive on time. If you don't want to reduce your profit margin even further, you still have to invoice for the remainder.

[kh-cathy]

Hi everyone,

Due to the age of this thread, it has been closed to further replies. Please feel free to start a new thread if you wish to continue to discuss this topic.

Thank you for understanding.