Antique Embroidered Patch / Emblem

[druusilla4]

Anyone know what this old emblem/patch signifies, or what organization it would have come from. Also, what category to list it?  Google isn't helping me... Thanks for any help 🙂 

[1786davycrockett]

@druusilla4 

Looks more like a coat of arms to me.

Maybe check some heraldry expert?

[lacemaker3]

@druusilla4 

This is the coat of arms of Pope Innocent X, who was pope from 1644-1655. The colors of the field are reversed. The bird is probably embroidered with silver thread, which was originally silver-white, but has tarnished to black.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Innocent_X

[maxine*j]

I'm sure you've found the origin.  I wonder what it was for / who wore it, though, if it is the Pope's coat of arms. 

There are so many dfferences.  The reversed colors, the crown is not the papal tiara, etc.   And would anything in official use ever lack the keys?  (I've forgotten what little I used to know about heraldry, and that was most heraldry of the UK, anyhow, but I think that's a ducal crown on OP's piece.) 

Unusual, to me, but I make no claims as to how Vatican heraldry works.

The writing on the back seems to say "Doris something-or-other," but I cant quite make it out.  I assume it's the owner's name...?

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[lacemaker3]

Yes, I noticed all the discrepancies as well. According to wikipedia, the papal tiara and the crossed keys have been used since about 1450.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_coats_of_arms

Based on the condition and technique, I would guess this was made in the late 19th or early 20th century. At that time, the embroiderer would have been carefully trained in technique, but the designs may not have been drawn by someone who was trained in heraldry, as it was not common knowledge by then. The fleur de lys and the dove are not that well drawn, and the placement of the charges is rather awkward. This may explain some of the discrepancies.

I can't really think why the arms of Pope Innocent X would have been needed at such a late date. That made me think that this might have a training piece, or an example piece that could be used to show clients how a custom made piece would be made. The embroidery itself is well done.

[lacemaker3]

Most examples of this coat of arms from historic times do show the tiara and keys, but I found this example from 1711 which does not. If they were working from an engraving like this, then it would have been easy to switch the colors of the field, and it would explain the awkward proportions as well.

https://www.alamy.com/coat-of-arms-of-innocent-x-in-berninis-santandrea-al-quirinale-by-filippo-juva...

[lacemaker3 · Accepted solution]

Wait, hang on!  Update!

This is the coat of arms of the Pamphili family. The name on the back is Doria Pamphili. The family survived into the 20th century as Doria-Pamphili, or Doria-Pamphili-Landi.

Pope Innocent X was baptized as Giovanni Battista Pamphili, and used his family arms when he became pope, which was the usual practice.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pamphili_family

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doria-Pamphili-Landi

[maxine*j]

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@lacemaker3 wrote:

Wait, hang on!  Update!

This is the coat of arms of the Pamphili family. The name on the back is Doria Pamphili. The family survived into the 20th century as Doria-Pamphili, or Doria-Pamphili-Landi.

Pope Innocent X was baptized as Giovanni Battista Pamphili, and used his family arms when he became pope, which was the usual practice.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pamphili_family

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doria-Pamphili-Landi

---

BINGO! 

So that is what is written on the back, right?  Talk about hidden in plain sight.   😄 

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[lacemaker3]

Well, if "Pamphili" had been written a bit more legibly on the back of the embroidery, I might have spotted it from the beginning. But, in my defense, how many people know or pay attention to the names that popes used before they became pope?

So, really the only discrepancy that is left is the swapped  colors in the field.

The head of the Pamphili family was/is a prince, which explains the crown instead of the papal tiara. This would have been the pope's arms if they used the tiara and the crossed keys, but without them they are arms of the Pamphili family. There are a lot of mis-attributed pictures of the Pamphili arms online, too. Mis-labelled as the arms of the pope.  {I think I have mixed up plurals and singular in this paragraph, but I don't feel like trying to sort it out.}

[maxine*j]

And I thought it said, maybe, "Doris."   😄  

I thought about trying to work on the image to see if I could make the writing something I could read but, frankly, I am getting tired of  spending my time doing that. 

Anyhow, you got it figured out!

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[lacemaker3]

Now I have to wonder if OP will ever see this explanation, or acknowledge it.

SIGH.

It's so discouraging.

[lacemaker3]

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@maxine*j wrote:

And I thought it said, maybe, "Doris."   😄  

...

Yeah, actually, that guess had a major contribution to me figuring it out.

Thanks for that!

[druusilla4]

Thank you!

[druusilla4]

You guys are awesome! Thanks for your efforts 😀

[druusilla4]

Thank you for your help! 😀