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Community Member
Posts: 511
Registered: ‎11-02-2012

Re: Why did Lincoln want to ship blacks back to Africa?

in reply to dancing_space_monkeys

dancing_space_monkeys wrote:

This wouldn't be the first time that a lack of understanding of TOTAL amounts versus PERCENTAGE amounts was on display.

 Thanks for the lesson MONKEY, doubt any of us dumber than stink inbreds could have figured that out on our own.

 

just for the record, chewey, I didn't mean you. :smileyhappy:


De Nada,

 

But for the record, when it comes to RESEARCH and the use of stats numbers matter wether they be TOTAL or PERCENTAGE since we use the data to predict probabilities..... percentage versus total or volume is used to measure almost  everything statistically.

 

example

 

  • African-Americans and Latinos are disproportionately affected by HIV and AIDS. Blacks accounted for 45% of new HIV infections in 2006 and 47% of those living with the disease, yet they make up only 12% of the U.S. population. Latinos account for 17% of new infections yet comprise 15% of the U.S. population, while whites represent 35% of new infections and account for 66% of the total population.
“There are people who are generic. They make generic responses and they expect generic answers. They live inside a box and they think people who don't fit into their box are weird. But I'll tell you what, generic people are the weird people. They are like genetically-manipulated plants growing inside a laboratory, like indistinguishable faces, like droids. Like ignorance.”
― C. JoyBell C.
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dancing_space_monkeys
Community Member
Posts: 4,000
Registered: ‎03-05-2003

Re: Why did Lincoln want to ship blacks back to Africa?

in reply to john_wade

This wouldn't be the first time that a lack of understanding of TOTAL amounts versus PERCENTAGE amounts was on display.

 Thanks for the lesson MONKEY, doubt any of us dumber than stink inbreds could have figured that out on our own.

 

just for the record, chewey, I didn't mean you. :smileyhappy:

Please use plain text.
Community Member
Posts: 511
Registered: ‎11-02-2012

Re: Why did Lincoln want to ship blacks back to Africa?

in reply to dancing_space_monkeys

dancing_space_monkeys wrote:

The examples are far less serious than slavery (far, far less by several orders of magnitude), but they illustrate total versus percentage.

 

Way back when I was in the third grade, our school had a school spirit contest. Every student got a school spirit t-shirt, and once a week it was spirit day. The class who had the most students wearing their shirts got an ice cream party the next day.

 

One issue, though: Nearly every class in school had about 30 students, but one teacher had around 45! Not sure how this happened, since they normally make an effort to balance class size, but there it was.

 

That meant that even if every student in my class wore their spirit shirt, at 100% participation, that guy only had to get about 70% participation to win. After a number of complaints, it was changed to percentage participation.

 

Let's have a dice rolling contest. You use normal dice, and I'll bring my D&D percentile dice. You rolled a five? Well I rolled a fifty two. I win! Woo-Hoo!


Thanks for the lesson MONKEY, doubt any of us dumber than stink inbreds could have figured that out on our own.

“There are people who are generic. They make generic responses and they expect generic answers. They live inside a box and they think people who don't fit into their box are weird. But I'll tell you what, generic people are the weird people. They are like genetically-manipulated plants growing inside a laboratory, like indistinguishable faces, like droids. Like ignorance.”
― C. JoyBell C.
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kosh_vh
Community Member
Posts: 1,741
Registered: ‎10-02-2005

Re: Why did Lincoln want to ship blacks back to Africa?

in reply to dancing_space_monkeys

and I'll bring my D&D percentile dice.

 

Well that reminds me of an episode of the Big Bang Theory (several actually, but one in particular).




* Kosh *
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dancing_space_monkeys
Community Member
Posts: 4,000
Registered: ‎03-05-2003

Re: Why did Lincoln want to ship blacks back to Africa?

in reply to john_wade

The examples are far less serious than slavery (far, far less by several orders of magnitude), but they illustrate total versus percentage.

 

Way back when I was in the third grade, our school had a school spirit contest. Every student got a school spirit t-shirt, and once a week it was spirit day. The class who had the most students wearing their shirts got an ice cream party the next day.

 

One issue, though: Nearly every class in school had about 30 students, but one teacher had around 45! Not sure how this happened, since they normally make an effort to balance class size, but there it was.

 

That meant that even if every student in my class wore their spirit shirt, at 100% participation, that guy only had to get about 70% participation to win. After a number of complaints, it was changed to percentage participation.

 

Let's have a dice rolling contest. You use normal dice, and I'll bring my D&D percentile dice. You rolled a five? Well I rolled a fifty two. I win! Woo-Hoo!

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dancing_space_monkeys
Community Member
Posts: 4,000
Registered: ‎03-05-2003

Re: Why did Lincoln want to ship blacks back to Africa?

in reply to john_wade

18,

 

This wouldn't be the first time that a lack of understanding of TOTAL amounts versus PERCENTAGE amounts was on display.

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91xv920rh
Community Member
Posts: 1,746
Registered: ‎06-09-2004

Re: Why did Lincoln want to ship blacks back to Africa?

in reply to dancing_space_monkeys

Free blacks who owned slaves was uncommon, but not unheard of.

 


What is amazing is the "they did it too" applied in this case.....

 

Around 98% of slaves were owned by White Christians (just to poke SOMEONE) while around 2% were owned by Jews or Free Blacks.............

 

ZOMG!

 

What is not taken into account is that both Jews and Free Blacks were extremely small minorities in the whole of the US.  And ANY number of slave owners in their ranks disproportionately skew the averages.

 

If there are two "X" people and one owns slaves that is a FIFTY PERCENT rate of ownership....  If there are 1000 "Y" people and 100 own slaves it is a TEN PERCENT rate of ownership....  Who owns MORE?

 

 

“All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others.”
-Douglas Adams

“Everyone is entitled to his own opinions, but not his own facts.”
- Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Being intentionally vague and repeating Parrot Points adds little to nothing to the discussion.
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dancing_space_monkeys
Community Member
Posts: 4,000
Registered: ‎03-05-2003

Re: Why did Lincoln want to ship blacks back to Africa?

in reply to john_wade

Free blacks who owned slaves was uncommon, but not unheard of.

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Community Member
Posts: 511
Registered: ‎11-02-2012

Re: Why did Lincoln want to ship blacks back to Africa?

in reply to john_wade

Heres some interesting reading from an undergraduate abstract by  Yuliya Tikhomirova and Lucia Desir* Mercy College. 

 

http://www.kon.org/urc/v4/tikhomirova.html

 

I found this particularily interesting.

 

Despite changes in the law, blacks continued to hold slaves through the Civil War. Koger (1995) refers to the fact that "in 1860, some 3,000 blacks owned nearly 20,000 black slaves [in the southern states]. In South Carolina alone, more than 10,000 blacks were owned by black slaveholders." Thus, black slave ownership was dependent upon the prevailing atmosphere of the times. During certain periods and in certain areas blacks had no restriction as far as ownership of property and slaves, in others they were only permitted to own family members. At least in the case of Virginia in 1806, slave owning assured free blacks continued residency and even their own freedom.

 

Still, black slave owners like their white counterparts were also guided by economic exigencies. Koger (1995) states that black slave owners were not more likely to grant slaves their freedom. Ways of controlling slaves depended on the economic and personal situation of the master. Slave owners, both black and white, faced a difficult economic choice when contemplating manumission. Schwarz (1987) reveals: "Emancipation of slaves might require not only payment of wages to workers who were now free, but also financial guarantees of support in accordance with the law of manumission." He concludes, "No matter what their opinion on the morality of slavery, free blacks had to face these economic factors" (p. 324). According to the Act of 1800 manumission was legal only when a court of magistrates and freeholders completed an investigation of the capacity of the slave to function as a freeperson and then endorsed the deed of manumission (Koger, 1995). Black slaveowners appeared to be no more caring of their brethren than were white slaveowners. Koger (1995, p. 35) writes, "undoubtedly, during the period before the legislation was passed, several masters freed their old, infirm slaves who could no longer be used as laborers, thereby ridding themselves of an added expense."

 

Black slave masters were no better disposed than whites to providing good treatment to their slaves even in the case of their own family members. Woodson (1968) cites cases of husbands-masters who were not anxious to free their purchased slave-wives. The "benevolent" husbands put their wives on probation for a few years for training/educational purposes. If during this period the woman's behavior was not one acceptable to her husband, she was sold to another master (Woodson, 1968). As one can see, ownership by a black slave master did not always bode well for one who was a woman as well as a slave.

 

Black slaveholders were no more benevolent than whites in their treatment of slaves. Although many kept their slaves in decent conditions, some were tough and tight-fisted masters. They did not waste money on clothing and fed slaves the cheapest food available, which often accounted for their poor health, and treated them severely to get them to do their duties (Daudert, 1999). In many cases black slaveholders raped, inflicted bites, and withheld food from their slaves. The black masters believed that punishment was a necessary instrument to control their slaves and preserve a sense of authority. Like white slave owners, black masters placed disobedient slaves in the city jail or the workhouse as punishment for their servants. After their slaves were released from the workhouse, it was not unusual for their black masters to give them a flogging for their disobedience (Koger, 1995; Johnson & Roark, 1984; Daudert, 1999). Being owned by a black slave master did not offer any advantages as far as treatment and conditions of servitude. Cruelty was a common tool of social control.

 

“There are people who are generic. They make generic responses and they expect generic answers. They live inside a box and they think people who don't fit into their box are weird. But I'll tell you what, generic people are the weird people. They are like genetically-manipulated plants growing inside a laboratory, like indistinguishable faces, like droids. Like ignorance.”
― C. JoyBell C.
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kosh_vh
Community Member
Posts: 1,741
Registered: ‎10-02-2005

Re: Why did Lincoln want to ship blacks back to Africa?

in reply to cheweysmomma

Now don't confuse the far left with facts. It gets messy in here when people do that.




* Kosh *
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Community Member
Posts: 511
Registered: ‎11-02-2012

Re: Why did Lincoln want to ship blacks back to Africa?

in reply to cheweysmomma

Blacks Owning Black Slaves

 

The fact is large numbers offree Negroes owned black slaves.

 

In 1860, only a small minority of whites owned slaves. According to the U.S. census report for that last year before the Civil War, there were nearly 27 million Whites (today, 200 million?) in the country. Some eight million of them lived in the slaveholding states.

 

The census also determined that there were fewer than 385,000 individuals who owned slaves (1). IF, all slaveholders had just been White, that would amount to only 1.4% of Whites (or 98.6 percent NOT owning any slaves) in the country (or 4.8 percent of southern Whites owning one or more slaves).

 

In the rare instances when the ownership of slaves by Free Negroes is acknowledged in the history books, justification centers on the claim that Black slave masters were simply individuals who purchased the freedom of a spouse or child from a White slaveholder and had been unable to legally manumit (to release from slavery) them. 

 

Although this did indeed happen at times, it is a misrepresentation of the majority of instances, one which is debunked by records of the period on Blacks who owned slaves. These include individuals such as Justus Angel and Mistress L. Horry, of Colleton District, South Carolina, who each owned 84 slaves in 1830. In fact, in 1830 a fourth (25%) of the free Negro slave masters in South Carolina owned 10 or more slaves; eight owning 30 or more (2).

 

According to federal census reports on June 1, 1860 — there were nearly 4.5 million Negroes in the United States, with fewer than four million of them living in the southern slave-holding states. Of the Blacks residing in the South, 261,988 were not slaves. Of this number, 10,689 lived in New Orleans. The country’s leading African-American historian, Duke University professor John Hope Franklin, records that in New Orleans over 3,000 free Negroes owned slaves, or 28% of the free Negroes in that city.

To return to the census figures quoted above, this 28% is certainly impressive when compared to less than 1.4% of all American Whites, and less than 4.8% of southern Whites.The statistics show that, when becoming free,

 

Blacks disproportionately became slave masters themselves.

The majority of slaveholders, white and black, owned only 1 to 5 slaves. More often than not, and contrary to 150 years of bullwhips-on-tortured-backs propaganda, black and white masters worked and ate alongside their charges; be it in house, field or workshop. The few individuals who owned 50+ slaves were confined to the top one percent, and have been defined as slave magnates.

 

In 1860 there were at least six Negroes in Louisiana who owned 65 or more slaves The largest number, 152 slaves, were owned by the widow C. Richards and her son P.C. Richards, who owned a large sugar cane plantation. Another Negro slave magnate in Louisiana, with over 100 slaves, was Antoine Dubuclet, a sugar planter whose estate was valued at $264,000 (1860 dollars). That year, the mean wealth of southern White men was $3,978.

In Charleston, S.C. in 1860… 125 free Negroes owned slaves; six of them owning 10 or more. Of the $1.5 million (1860 dollars) in taxable property owned by free Negroes in Charleston, more than $300,000 represented slave holdings (5). In North Carolina 69 free Negroes were slave owners (6).  …to full article.

 

http://elliotlakenews.wordpress.com/2011/01/27/blacks-owning-black-slaves/

“There are people who are generic. They make generic responses and they expect generic answers. They live inside a box and they think people who don't fit into their box are weird. But I'll tell you what, generic people are the weird people. They are like genetically-manipulated plants growing inside a laboratory, like indistinguishable faces, like droids. Like ignorance.”
― C. JoyBell C.
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Community Member
Posts: 511
Registered: ‎11-02-2012

Re: Why did Lincoln want to ship blacks back to Africa?

in reply to cjminnesota57

Ive done plenty of research and study on the Black slave issue. Blacks are still enslaving each other and blaming whites for everything  in case you haven't noticed. 

“There are people who are generic. They make generic responses and they expect generic answers. They live inside a box and they think people who don't fit into their box are weird. But I'll tell you what, generic people are the weird people. They are like genetically-manipulated plants growing inside a laboratory, like indistinguishable faces, like droids. Like ignorance.”
― C. JoyBell C.
Please use plain text.
cjminnesota57
Community Member
Posts: 1,886
Registered: ‎11-13-2006

Re: Why did Lincoln want to ship blacks back to Africa?

in reply to cheweysmomma

cheweysmomma wrote:

"Very few freed blacks owned slaves and many of them did so because they purchased loved ones to protect them."

 

 

Horse doo doo. 


Do you have anything to back your claim that it's "doo doo"?
Or, are you simply claiming it's "doo doo" because a non-rightwinger posted it?





If people are trying to bring you down, it only means you are above them.
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Community Member
Posts: 358
Registered: ‎05-26-2005

Re: Why did Lincoln want to ship blacks back to Africa?

in reply to john_wade

Horse doo doo.

 

I actually researched and did a paper on benevolent slavery in college. Did you? Did you educated yourself at all on the subject before commenting?

 

There were many blacks that owned other blacks that were no better than white slave owners.

 

And there were also many blacks that purchased family members and loved ones. They purchased their spouses, children, other family members and friends. 

 

It was a combination of good and bad.

 

And the OP's claim that 6,000 free blacks owned slaves is also untrue. The real number was about 3,700 out of almost 200,000. About 2% them.  

 

http://www.theroot.com/views/did-black-people-own-slaves

 

 

"The answers to these questions are complex, and historians have been arguing for some time over whether free blacks purchased family members as slaves in order to protect them -- motivated, on the one hand, by benevolence and philanthropy, as historian Carter G. Woodson put it, or whether, on the other hand, they purchased other black people "as an act of exploitation," primarily to exploit their free labor for profit, just as white slave owners did. The evidence shows that, unfortunately, both things are true."

 

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2821/before-the-civil-war-were-some-slave-owners-black

 

"Free blacks were fairly common in the antebellum south, constituting 8 percent of southern blacks in 1840. Most had gained their freedom through manumission (especially common just after the Revolutionary War) or been born free to a free mother. Slaves who'd been permitted to earn money in their spare time sometimes made enough to buy their freedom. Another route was being bought and freed by free relatives or friends."

 

"But some who bought slaves in this way didn't formally free them for years, partly because freedmen paid higher taxes than slaves or whites. Courts since colonial times had recognized the right of free blacks to own slaves. This gave rise to an odd arrangement in which people lived as free but were legally someone else's property. This was benevolent slavery."

He's not a Brewster. He's the son of a sea cook!

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Community Member
Posts: 511
Registered: ‎11-02-2012

Re: Why did Lincoln want to ship blacks back to Africa?

in reply to abbybrewster

"Very few freed blacks owned slaves and many of them did so because they purchased loved ones to protect them."

 

 

Horse doo doo. 

“There are people who are generic. They make generic responses and they expect generic answers. They live inside a box and they think people who don't fit into their box are weird. But I'll tell you what, generic people are the weird people. They are like genetically-manipulated plants growing inside a laboratory, like indistinguishable faces, like droids. Like ignorance.”
― C. JoyBell C.
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Community Member
Posts: 1,116
Registered: ‎04-16-2002

Re: Why did Lincoln want to ship blacks back to Africa?

in reply to abbybrewster

"Very few freed blacks owned slaves and many of them did so because they purchased loved ones to protect them."

 

 

 

 

John Stanly must have  had a lot of loved ones...

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Community Member
Posts: 1,116
Registered: ‎04-16-2002

Re: Why did Lincoln want to ship blacks back to Africa?

in reply to dancing_space_monkeys

dancing_space_monkeys wrote:

Lincoln was a manic depressive, and suffered deep depressions, along with wife Mary.

 

I've heard that at times his friends worked to keep knives, razors and other things away from him.


looking at his beard I guess he didn't find his razor.

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Community Member
Posts: 358
Registered: ‎05-26-2005

Re: Why did Lincoln want to ship blacks back to Africa?

in reply to john_wade

But the "Emancipation Proclamation" must have made his Jewish and black political friends furious because at that time 45% of Jewish households in the U.S. owned at least one black slave and over 6,000 "free" blacks in the U.S. owned at least 1 black slave.

 

1.25% of slave owners in this country were Jewish.

 

Very few freed blacks owned slaves and many of them did so because they purchased loved ones to protect them.

 

Also, the "Emancipation Proclamation" which was aimed at black slaves did nothing about all of the poor white children that were sold into some type of slavery as "white slaves". It didn't liberate them because they weren't black.

 

The Emancipation Proclamation freed ALL slaves that resided in states that were part of the Confederacy. The 13th Amendment later made slavery illegal across the nation. 

 

Neither was based on race.

He's not a Brewster. He's the son of a sea cook!

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Community Member
Posts: 949
Registered: ‎01-24-2007

Re: Why did Lincoln want to ship blacks back to Africa?

in reply to dancing_space_monkeys

Perhaps Lincoln had a vision of the future of Detroit.

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dancing_space_monkeys
Community Member
Posts: 4,000
Registered: ‎03-05-2003

Re: Why did Lincoln want to ship blacks back to Africa?

in reply to john_wade

Lincoln was a manic depressive, and suffered deep depressions, along with wife Mary.

 

I've heard that at times his friends worked to keep knives, razors and other things away from him.

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