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Community Member
Posts: 3,926
Registered: ‎06-16-2006

Re: OT: Political Discussion... Please...

[ Edited ]
in reply to gacooke

Good morning GA. Here's a report I think you might be interested in.

 

The European think-tank Germanwatch and Climate Action Network Europe released its 2015 climate change performance index. https://germanwatch.org/en/download/10407.pdf

 

The Climate Change Performance Index is an instrument designed to enhance transparency in international climate politics. Its aim is to put political and social pressure on those countries which have, up until now, failed to take ambitious action on climate protection. It also aims to highlight those countries with best-practice climate policies.

 

80 percent of the evaluation is based on objective indicators of emissions trend and emissions level. 20 percent of the index results are built upon national and international climate policy assessments by more than 200 experts from the respective countries.

 

From the chart "Overall Results • CCPI 2014" on pages 8 and 9.
United States: 44th of 58
Canada: 58th of 58 - Dead last!

 

From the chart "Partial Results • Emissions Level on pages 12 and 13:
The U.S. and Canada are both rated Very Poor despite the fact that Canada's share of Global GDP is 1.56% vs. 17.17% for the U.S.  [Scale: Very good - Good - Moderate - Poor - Very poor]

 

From the chart "Partial Results • Development of Emissions on pages 14 and 15:
United States: Good
Canada: Moderate

 

From the chart "Partial Results • Renewable Energies" on pages 16 and 17.
United States: Poor
Canada: Very Poor

 

From the chart "Partial Results • Efficiency" on pages 18 and 19.
United States: Poor
Canada: Poor

 

From the chart "Partial Results • Climate Policy" on pages 20 and 21
United States: Poor
Canada: Very Poor

 

Imagine that. The climate policy in the U.S. is ranked higher than the climate policy in Canada and yet we have a Canadian insisting that we should change our life style while ignoring the "Very Poor" performance of his own country.

 

The fact is that Canada ranks behind the US in three of the five categories measured in this report and ties with the US in the other two and yet patrickh has no hesitation telling us how to spend our tax money.

 

Finally from the same report:

 

In Canada (58th) nothing has changed and nothing is going forward at state level. Canada is about to miss its 2020 emissions reduction target by about 20% and the only effective policies in place are provincial initiatives.

 

Perhaps Canadians like patrickh who come here to criticize U.S. policy should clean up their own house first.


If we desire to secure peace, . . . it must be known, that we are at all times ready for war.
George Washington
Community Member
Posts: 3,926
Registered: ‎06-16-2006

Re: OT: Political Discussion... Please...

[ Edited ]
in reply to patrickh3342

A simple response to your latest, patrickh: This is a political thread therefore comments about our inept, incompetent and outright dishonest president are not only totally appropriate but relevant since they cast legitimate doubt on the value of his endorsement of the AGW/ACC position.

 

Finally, I once again have to wonder why you are still posting anything given that AGW/ACC gatekeepers say "the science is settled".


If we desire to secure peace, . . . it must be known, that we are at all times ready for war.
George Washington
Community Member
Posts: 3,975
Registered: ‎03-10-2008

Re: OT: Political Discussion... Please...

in reply to laddieboyblue

Sorry laddie, but patrickh is a self-avowed gadfly.  As such, his posts are meant to provoke a response through over-the-top criticism.  That just gets in the way of the science and rightly belong on the political thread. 

 

He is getting more inchoate with his ramblings about one authority or another.  His latest is to chastize me for presenting links to opposing ideas and controversial results.  Like he's discovered my secret (psst.  it is that I am not an advocate for one view or another, I'm an advocate for science). 

 

He thinks I'm somehow opposed to Dr. Curry being an open-minded scientist?  That's from the parts of his posts that are comprehensible.  He is reduced to simple bomb throwing.  There was a MWP, there is no MWP, pay no attention to the man behind the hockey sthick.



"climate is what we expect weather is what we get"
M. Twain


.
Community Member
Posts: 3,082
Registered: ‎05-04-2010

Re: OT: Political Discussion... Please...

in reply to southernstargems

southernstargems wrote:

 patrickh3342 wrote:

Well a start would be understanding the difference between the weather and climate. They aren't the same.

 

Yes, I know.  You see, I am a climate scientist.  I got my degree by taking an online course from The University of Phoenix.   :smileywink:

 

When you talk about climate, don't forget to disregard minor things like the sun, the oceans and the clouds.  After all, what could they possibly have to do with the climate on Earth?


I saw that online course. Some very good speakers. I can see why you like the course and took it as at least one of your gurus speak here.

 

"We haven't had a deadly heat wave since the 1950's." - John Coleman founder and immediately fired of The Weather Channel;

 

Bonus video from John included.

 

" My brother was shoveling snow in Winter in Ohio and that's why AGW is false".  

 

" How a snowball in 2015 proved 2014 wasn't the hottest year on record.....Senator Inhofe

 

"How prayer can change climate"......Rick Perry

 

" Why we don't need science and God will not destroy the earth" University Chaplain

 

"Al Gore Derangement Syndrome".......Al Gore

 

" The difference between Beach Front and Ocean View property"......A bonus real estate course by Mr. Gore....

 

Al Gore will be offering 50% of all Apple products to all Graduates. His way of thanking you for your continued support of his environmental fund through your purchases of Apple and Google products.

 

"Why I told deniers to sell their Apple stock"......CEO Apple

 

Conspiracy Conshmiracy .......The Illuminati and a  Banker to be named.

 

" Why Conspiracy theorists are always right"........Jimmy Hoffa

 

At the end of the course John Coleman will be giving each Graduate a Weather Channel silver space suit and tinfoil hat with propeller. Making you an official member of the Junior Sooper Secret Cabal of Weather Channel Climate Scientists. Along with a copy of his book "How my partner became a billionaire and I am just a weatherman on local TV." 

 

Now back to the science.

 

Nothing has been disregarded by the Koch Brothers funded team of Elite Physicists. Including the Sun.Clouds, Oceans, Volcanoes, UHI,Orbital Changes, Raw temperature data,C02. 

 

Of course he is more than happy to have you look at all his data and his testing of all natural climate forcings and why they did not contribute to the warming over the past coupla centuries. 

 

http://berkeleyearth.org/

 

Feel free to look up your own temp record for your area. I often find criticisms of climate scientists but when the public is offered a chance to question them or challenge them ya get nothing but crickets or the new one from the Repubs. "I am not a Scientist".

 

On the other hand John Coleman has still not responded to  debate Dr. Keating. Then again he isn't a scientist working in that field. But if you send him a cheque for $49.95 you get your very own climate kit with temp guage that will never go up and satellite receiver that fits on your hat to get the latest readings.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Community Member
Posts: 3,082
Registered: ‎05-04-2010

Re: OT: Political Discussion... Please...

in reply to southernstargems

southernstargems wrote:

 I wondered why patrick has been posting weather on the PD thread.

 

Because if he posted his nonsense on Gary's thread, he would be confronted with indisputable facts.  Even though he chooses to ignore those facts anyway, in a battle of wits, Gary would win every time.


Well if you can ignore temp readings and somehow believe Ga posts indisputable facts then I doubt you would know anything about the scientific facts that Ga cannot disprove or that I have posted there.

 

His latest link to prove MWP was global and warmer than today was shot down by his own hero Dr. Judith Curry and myself.

 

Well if Ga is afraid to challenge any scientist then how indisputable are they?

 

Another funny one as Ga posts a link from Dr. Richard Tol stating there is no consensus only to find out Dr. Tol actually does believe there is a consensus of climate scientists.

 

These indisputable facts of Ga must be a big secret since he hasn't even published them or even challenged Dr. Keating or Dr. Muller by putting forward his theories or accepted their challenge. Not real confident I guess.

 

Maybe you should encourage him to debunk the mainstream science and gain all that fame and fortune.

 

He might even help you with your fear of Nuclear energy.

 

 

Community Member
Posts: 3,082
Registered: ‎05-04-2010

Re: OT: Political Discussion... Please...

in reply to odiescoins



patrickh3342 wrote:
Dr. Judith Curry has just published her "Stadium Wave Theory", as well as Willie Soon, Pielkie, Lindzen, and even Anthony Watts among others are individuals who have published their work in peer reviewed journals. None of their work has  been banned or censored by the scientific community or Congress. 

 

Care to try again?

 odiescoins wrote:

 

However since you insist on posting unsubstantiated assertions, I am once again asking for the links that back up your assertions. After all, don't the AGW/ACC proponents have an obligation to indoctrinate educate all the "deniers"?

 

patrickh3342 wrote:

 

Well more goalpost moving and Obama is all to blame, yet no names of all these Scientists who were supposedly censored and not allowed to publish.

 

From the 'take personal responsibility crowd" you now feel we owe you a free education on what the science is actually saying? Where would a person start when you are not even aware of published dissenting opinions to AGW or haven't even bothered to look at even papers that GA has linked to? 

 

odiescoins wrote:

Of course it really doesn't make any difference if the AGW/ACC "scientists" allow or disallow dissenting positions now that global warming climate change has been completely politicized and the Gatekeeper-in-Chief has declared that the "science is settled".

 

In fact, since "the science is settled" one has to wonder why anyone is still publishing anything.

 

More back tracking from your extraordinary claims w/o evidence. As somebody who is anti-science I wouldn't expect you to understand the continuing push for more knowledge and a better understanding while standing on scientific facts that are not in dispute for over 5 decades.

 

As a member of "the scared of your own shadow crowd" you should actually feel the fear and do it anyway. Go ahead crack a Physics book or read the conclusions of even independent scientists.

 

Here I will at least help a buddy with some of the heavy lifting.

 

Koch funded Physicists results of 39000 stations and 1.5 B temperature records.

 

You can even look up the temperature records from your own State.....let me know what it says?

 

 odiescoins wrote:

As for government interference censorship involvement, here is some info about FEMA's latest preparedness assessment procedures:

 

patrickh3342 wrote:

 

Well the censorship by the Bush Admin  didn't stop Climate Scientists from continuing to advance our knowledge of climate.They weren't whining and still put out a lot of work showing how manmade emissions has caused warming. Aren't the Repubs planning on defunding Climate Science anyway?That'll shut em up for good. Well in the US anyway. Those US Navy Scientists could be a problem though.

 

http://www.ucsusa.org/our-work/center-science-and-democracy/promoting-scientific-integrity/interfere...

 

"Concern over this problem led the Union of Concerned Scientists (UCS) to investigate political interference in science at the EPA. The investigation combines dozens of interviews with current and former EPA staff, analysis of government documents, more than 1,600 responses to a survey sent to current EPA scientists, and written comments from EPA scientists.  

 

The results of these investigations show an agency under siege from political pressures. On numerous issues—ranging from mercury pollution to groundwater contamination to climate change—political appointees have edited scientific documents, manipulated scientific assessments, and generally sought to undermine the science behind dozens of EPA regulations."

 

odiescoins wrote:

FEMA to deny funds to warming deniers
States whose governors refuse to acknowledge climate change will not get preparedness aid.
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/politics/20150322_FEMA_to_deny_funds_to_warming_deniers.html

 

patrickh3342 wrote:

So the take personal responsibility and small gov't cheerleaders are upset they aren't getting another handout for something they don't believe in?

 

Prolly worried they will just organize town hall prayer meetings as a strategy for preparedness. 


 

Community Member
Posts: 6,889
Registered: ‎05-28-2003

Re: OT: Political Discussion... Please...

in reply to laddieboyblue

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii196/karencarlton/miscellaneous/voltaire-quote-rules-over-youjpgw600.jpg

Community Member
Posts: 3,050
Registered: ‎10-04-2005

Re: OT: Political Discussion... Please...

in reply to laddieboyblue

Two gay hotel owners in NY hosted a dinner for Ted Cruz who voiced his anti-gay opinions at the event.  Now the gay community is calling for a boycott on the hotel.  What bigots!  Now the gay hotel owners have apologised very profusely I might add.  They are full of remorse but it may be a little late in the game.  So even members of the gay community can be boycotted.  Maybe Ted Cruz should sue the hotel owners, collect $135,000 and donate it to the bakery in Oregon.  Fair trade?

 

 

 

Politicians are the lowest form of life, liberal democratic politicians are the lowest form of politicians

General George S. Patton

Community Member
Posts: 1,806
Registered: ‎12-17-2006

Re: OT: Political Discussion... Please...

in reply to laddieboyblue

 I wondered why patrick has been posting weather on the PD thread.

 

Because if he posted his nonsense on Gary's thread, he would be confronted with indisputable facts.  Even though he chooses to ignore those facts anyway, in a battle of wits, Gary would win every time.

Community Member
Posts: 504
Registered: ‎12-14-2008

Re: OT: Political Discussion... Please...

in reply to laddieboyblue

SchweiZer

Community Member
Posts: 3,050
Registered: ‎10-04-2005

Re: OT: Political Discussion... Please...

in reply to odiescoins

I don't mean to be picky but I thought this was the PD thread and not gacook's climate thread?  It would seem that the PD thread has been hijacked.   I wondered why patrick has been posting weather on the PD thread. LOL.  I do think that the postings were interesting. I can't wait to get a copy of the new book by Schweiser? on the Clintons.

Community Member
Posts: 1,806
Registered: ‎12-17-2006

Re: OT: Political Discussion... Please...

in reply to patrickh3342

 patrickh3342 wrote:

Well a start would be understanding the difference between the weather and climate. They aren't the same.

 

Yes, I know.  You see, I am a climate scientist.  I got my degree by taking an online course from The University of Phoenix.   :smileywink:

 

When you talk about climate, don't forget to disregard minor things like the sun, the oceans and the clouds.  After all, what could they possibly have to do with the climate on Earth?

Community Member
Posts: 1,806
Registered: ‎12-17-2006

Re: OT: Political Discussion... Please...

in reply to patrickh3342

patrickh3342 wrote:

A question for you. If the warming is not caused by fossil fuel emissions then what is the cause that just happens to match by accident the rise in C02 perfectly?

 

Exactly what warming are you talking about?  There hasn't been any warming in over a dozen years, while the CO2 levels have continued to rise, so could you please supply some examples of places where the temperatures have continued to rise?. Most of the record high temperatures recorded where I live happened over one hundred years ago.  Globally, temperatures have been rising since the end of the "little ice age" which began in the 14th century and ended in the mid-19th century.  I believe that it was in either 1817 or 1818 that was referred to as "the year without a summer".  Just google "the year without a summer" to get more info on that.

 

It was proven decades ago that CO2 is not a major greenhouse gas.  Besides, plants require CO2 in order to survive.  Plants take in CO2 and give off oxygen, which all life on Earth requires to survive.  IMO, CO2 is a good thing.  The more CO2 there is, the healthier the plants will be and the more oxygen that will be produced will be beneficial to all life on Earth.

Community Member
Posts: 3,926
Registered: ‎06-16-2006

Re: OT: Political Discussion... Please...

in reply to patrickh3342

patrickh3342 wrote:
Dr. Judith Curry has just published her "Stadium Wave Theory", as well as Willie Soon, Pielkie, Lindzen, and even Anthony Watts among others are individuals who have published their work in peer reviewed journals. None of their work has  been banned or censored by the scientific community or Congress. 

 

Care to try again?


Not really. IMO the continuous demonstrations of ineptitude, incompetence and outright dishonesty by our president and the biased political coverage from the liberal MSM are a far more immediate danger to our country.

 

However since you insist on posting unsubstantiated assertions, I am once again asking for the links that back up your assertions. After all, don't the AGW/ACC proponents have an obligation to indoctrinate educate all the "deniers"?

 

Of course it really doesn't make any difference if the AGW/ACC "scientists" allow or disallow dissenting positions now that global warming climate change has been completely politicized and the Gatekeeper-in-Chief has declared that the "science is settled".

 

In fact, since "the science is settled" one has to wonder why anyone is still publishing anything.

 

As for government interference censorship involvement, here is some info about FEMA's latest preparedness assessment procedures:

 

FEMA to deny funds to warming deniers
States whose governors refuse to acknowledge climate change will not get preparedness aid.
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/politics/20150322_FEMA_to_deny_funds_to_warming_deniers.html

 

Specifically, beginning in March 2016, states seeking preparedness money will have to assess how climate change threatens their communities. Governors will have to sign off on hazard-mitigation plans.

 

And just to make sure there is no interference from all those evil "deniers":

 

"The new federal rules don't require public involvement in the creation of states' disaster-preparedness plans, eliminating the opportunity for environmental groups and concerned citizens to submit comments or concerns about the assessments.

 

As I said, looks to me like we have yet another example of the pot calling the kettle black.


If we desire to secure peace, . . . it must be known, that we are at all times ready for war.
George Washington
Community Member
Posts: 3,082
Registered: ‎05-04-2010

Re: OT: Political Discussion... Please...

in reply to odiescoins

odiescoins wrote:

patrickh3342 wrote:

If the science is supposedly all wrong why ban or censor even talking about it?


Good question. Why are the gatekeepers "scientists" in the AGW/ACC community banning or censoring the work of those who disagree with them?

 

Looks to me like we have yet another example of the pot calling the kettle black.


 Dr. Judith Curry has just published her "Stadium Wave Theory", as well as Willie Soon, Pielkie, Lindzen, and even Anthony Watts among others are individuals who have published their work in peer reviewed journals. None of their work has  been banned or censored by the scientific community or Congress. 

 

Care to try again?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Community Member
Posts: 3,082
Registered: ‎05-04-2010

Re: OT: Political Discussion... Please...

in reply to southernstargems

southernstargems wrote:

Blah, blah, blah....


Exactly what is a "climate scientist" and why would such a person know more than someone who has 60 years of experience studying the Earth's climate?

 

 patrickh3342 wrote:

Well a start would be understanding the difference between the weather and climate. They aren't the same.

 

If he feels he does know more than the collective body of scientists studying climate then he shouldn't be shying away from debating a climate scientist like Dr. Keating who has challenged him or challenging Koch Brothers funded Dr. Muller and his team of Physicists. Can he not find any errors in their research or conclusions with his vast years of experience.

 

 

Nuclear power?  No way.  Not since the lefties in Hollywood came out with that ridiculous movie "The China Syndrome".

 

 patrickh3342 wrote:

Making your decisions based on movies or a guy on TV who tells whether to pack an umbrella or not instead of science is your own perogative. 

 

BTW, you should read Al Gore's book.  After all, he knows all about global warming climate change.  According to Gore's book, all life on Earth fried to a crisp in 2013 (and if you want to believe Ted Danson, all life in the oceans ceased to exist back in the mid '90s).

 

patrickh3342 wrote: 

Al Gore is an activist and seems to be of far more interest to anybody who rejects science than anybody else. 

 

One last question.  Exactly what is the "normal" climate for the Earth and how does the climate now differ from the norm?

 

patrickh3342 wrote: 

Well the rate of change for one. The normal climate would depend on the influences or factors producing it. An ice age is also a normal cycle and the normal climate would be 4-6C cooler, knowing that  would also want me to try and prevent the planet suddenly cooling due to any man made causes.

 

patrickh3342 wrote:

A question for you. If the warming is not caused by fossil fuel emissions then what is the cause that just happens to match by accident the rise in C02 perfectly?


 

Community Member
Posts: 3,050
Registered: ‎10-04-2005

Re: OT: Political Discussion... Please...

in reply to southernstargems

BTW, someone just told me that the person who founded Earth Day was a murderer.  He composted his girlfriend I think it was.  Ira Einhorn was his name.  He apparently fled to France.  Nice guy huh?

 

 

 

 

 

Politicians are the lowest form of life, Liberal Democratic politicians are the lowest form of politician.

General GS Patton.

Community Member
Posts: 1,806
Registered: ‎12-17-2006

Re: OT: Political Discussion... Please...

in reply to odiescoins

And don't forget the predictions that the Arctic would be ice free by 2013.

 

About a month ago, I was channel surfing and hit a channel where some show for kids was just going to commercial.  Believe it or not, it was the "Polar Bear" commercial.  You know the one.  It shows a shot of a polar bear swimming but only shows a few feet of water around him.  I guess they don't want you to see the icebergs in the background.  Either that or the Arctic ice has already melted and we just haven't heard about it yet.  :smileylol:

 

BTW, Happy Administrative Professionals Day everyone (check your calendar).  Oh, I almost forgot, it is also Earth Day, so everyone should go out and hug a tree today (unless "climate change" has killed them all).

Community Member
Posts: 3,926
Registered: ‎06-16-2006

Re: OT: Political Discussion... Please...

in reply to southernstargems

southernstargems wrote:

BTW, you should read Al Gore's book.  After all, he knows all about global warming climate change.  According to Gore's book, all life on Earth fried to a crisp in 2013 (and if you want to believe Ted Danson, all life in the oceans ceased to exist back in the mid '90s).


And don't forget the predictions that the Arctic would be ice free by 2013.


If we desire to secure peace, . . . it must be known, that we are at all times ready for war.
George Washington
Community Member
Posts: 3,926
Registered: ‎06-16-2006

Re: OT: Political Discussion... Please...

in reply to patrickh3342

patrickh3342 wrote:

If the science is supposedly all wrong why ban or censor even talking about it?


Good question. Why are the gatekeepers "scientists" in the AGW/ACC community banning or censoring the work of those who disagree with them?

 

Looks to me like we have yet another example of the pot calling the kettle black.


If we desire to secure peace, . . . it must be known, that we are at all times ready for war.
George Washington