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Community Member
Posts: 1,347
Registered: ‎01-31-2003

Re: O-bomb-O Care Sucks

in reply to nacra43

all of the plans available through the marketplace. *

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Community Member
Posts: 1,347
Registered: ‎01-31-2003

Re: O-bomb-O Care Sucks

in reply to kathieskorner

By the way don't many of those bronze plans leave participants on the hook for large annual deductibles and co-pays??  Subsidies don't apply to them.

 

Bronze = Insurer covering, on the average, 60% of the cost of essential health benefits (EHB) coverage.

Silver = 70%

Gold = 80%

Platinum = 90%

 

Bronze plans have higher deductibles, but premium costs are lower.

 

Cost-sharing subsidies (deductibles, copayments and coinsurance) are only available with silver or higher.

Premium tax credits are available with all of the plans. 

 

 

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Community Member
Posts: 2,835
Registered: ‎01-26-2003

Re: O-bomb-O Care Sucks

in reply to heckelandjeckel

Giving so much power over doctors and other  healthcare providers to a politically appointed board is downright scary.

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sheba*
Community Member
Posts: 5,874
Registered: ‎05-28-2003

Re: O-bomb-O Care Sucks

in reply to bertrambabe2010

bertrambabe2010 wrote:

IPAB is tasked with developing specific proposals to bring the net growth in Medicare spending back to target levels if the Medicare Actuary determines that net spending is forecast to exceed target levels, beginning in 2015.

 

With regard to IPAB's recommendations, the law says "The proposal shall not include any recommendation to ration health care, raise revenues or Medicare beneficiary premiums under section 1818, 1818A, or 1839, increase Medicare beneficiary cost sharing (including deductibles, coinsurance, and co-payments), or otherwise restrict benefits or modify eligibility criteria."[10] The Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) must implement these proposals unless Congress adopts equally effective alternatives. The board is also required to submit to Congress annual reports on health care costs, access, quality, and utilization. IPAB must submit to Congress recommendations on how to slow the growth in total private health care expenditures.[11]

 

But you can continue to spread the right's lies about it - once it is in effect, and people realize that they were lied to by the Republicans, it will be their career's on the line, not the Democratic ones.


 

 

But, you forgot to underline the rest of it:

 

(HHS) must implement these proposals unless Congress adopts equally effective alternatives. The board is also required to submit to Congress annual reports on health care costs, access, quality, and utilization. IPAB must submit to Congress recommendations on how to slow the growth in total private health care expenditures

 


As Paul Krugman explained a while back, "Arguably the most important thing we can do to limit the growth in health care costs is learning to say no; we cannot afford a system in which Medicare in particular will pay for anything, especially when that's combined with an industry structure that gives providers a strong financial incentive to engage in excessive care."

 =  =  =  =  =  =  = 

 

Which, among other things, is exactly what Dr. Howard Dean wrote. The IPAB “sets doctor reimbursement rates for Medicare and determining which procedures and drugs will be covered and at what price” and therefore, Dean continued. “will be able to stop certain treatments its members do not favor by simply setting rates to levels where no doctor or hospital will perform them.”

=  =  =  =  =  =  = 

 

As documented with specific quotes from the legislation, the Obama Health Care Law specifically directs the board to make “recommendations to slow the growth in national health expenditures” for private – not just governmentally fund– dollars devoted to health care. These recommendations are supposed to limit what ordinary citizens and their health insurance coverage can pay for medical treatment to force it below the rate of medical inflation.
=  =  =  =  =  =  = 

 

To implement these recommendations, the federal Department of Health and Human Services is empowered to impose so-called “quality” and “efficiency” measures on health care providers. Doctors who violate a “quality” standard by prescribing more life-saving medical treatment than it permits will be disqualified from contracting with any of the health insurance plans that individual Americans, under the Obama Health Care Law, will be mandated to purchase. Few doctors would be able to remain in practice if subjected to that penalty.

 

This means that treatment that a doctor and patient deem advisable to save that patient’s life or preserve or improve the patient’s health, but which exceeds the standard imposed by the government, will be denied even if the patient is willing and able to pay for it.
=  =  =  =  =  =  = 

 

The provisions of Obamacare that create the IPAB ensure that the board will not be subject to administrative or judicial review. In addition, once the IPAB's members are nominated by the president and confirmed by the Senate, they will be insulated. They can only be removed for "neglect of duty or malfeasance in office."

 

In addition, Rivkin and Foley point out that once the board acts, Congress' ability to overrule its actions is extremely limited and requires supermajority votes. If the board were to fail to make the required Medicare reductions, the law provides a fail-safe mechanism. Under those circumstances, all of the board's power would revert to the secretary of Health and Human Services.

 

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bertrambabe2010
Community Member
Posts: 3,629
Registered: ‎04-25-2011

Re: O-bomb-O Care Sucks

in reply to kosh_vh

IPAB is tasked with developing specific proposals to bring the net growth in Medicare spending back to target levels if the Medicare Actuary determines that net spending is forecast to exceed target levels, beginning in 2015.

 

With regard to IPAB's recommendations, the law says "The proposal shall not include any recommendation to ration health care, raise revenues or Medicare beneficiary premiums under section 1818, 1818A, or 1839, increase Medicare beneficiary cost sharing (including deductibles, coinsurance, and co-payments), or otherwise restrict benefits or modify eligibility criteria."[10] The Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) must implement these proposals unless Congress adopts equally effective alternatives. The board is also required to submit to Congress annual reports on health care costs, access, quality, and utilization. IPAB must submit to Congress recommendations on how to slow the growth in total private health care expenditures.[11]

 

But you can continue to spread the right's lies about it - once it is in effect, and people realize that they were lied to by the Republicans, it will be their career's on the line, not the Democratic ones.





SIGNATURE


"In the 13 months that I've been in the Senate, it has become apparent to me that the single thing that Republicans fear the most -- and that is when they're forced to tell the truth. It makes their heads explode," Ted Cruz 2/13/14

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bertrambabe2010
Community Member
Posts: 3,629
Registered: ‎04-25-2011

Re: O-bomb-O Care Sucks

[ Edited ]
in reply to kosh_vh

No, he won't.  They will not be reviewing every medicare case.  That is exactly one of the lies that are being spread by the right. 

 

IPAB was created as a strengthened version of the Medicare Payment Advisory Commission (MedPAC), a body with no regulatory power that solely advises Congress, but can not enact regulations in and of itself. Since 1997, MedPAC had recommended cuts totaling "hundreds of billions of dollars" to Medicare that were ignored by Congress

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_Payment_Advisory_Board





SIGNATURE


"In the 13 months that I've been in the Senate, it has become apparent to me that the single thing that Republicans fear the most -- and that is when they're forced to tell the truth. It makes their heads explode," Ted Cruz 2/13/14

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kosh_vh
Community Member
Posts: 1,741
Registered: ‎10-02-2005

Re: O-bomb-O Care Sucks

in reply to bertrambabe2010

bertrambabe2010 wrote:

kosh_vh wrote:

bertrambabe2010 wrote:

Millions of people still do not understand the program thanks to the lies being spread by the right and once they actually do see the advantages will change their minds - that is what is worrying the Republicans so much about it.


The problem is many people do understand the program that is why they are against it despite the lies being told by the far left and Obama.


The left is not the group talking about death panels that do not exist and other misinformation.  And no, the majority of Americans when asked stated that they really did not read or understand the law much but that they "heard" bad things about it.


And you ignore the fact that the president next year will hand pick 14 people to review every medicare case that comes down the pipe to see who and what is acceptable medical care to this panel.

 

Yes rationed health care. No grand ma you can not get heart surgery because you will only live a couple more years and won't pay that much in taxes vs that 30 yer old down the street who will pay another 30 years into the tax system.




* Kosh *
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bertrambabe2010
Community Member
Posts: 3,629
Registered: ‎04-25-2011

Re: O-bomb-O Care Sucks

in reply to kosh_vh

kosh_vh wrote:

bertrambabe2010 wrote:

Millions of people still do not understand the program thanks to the lies being spread by the right and once they actually do see the advantages will change their minds - that is what is worrying the Republicans so much about it.


The problem is many people do understand the program that is why they are against it despite the lies being told by the far left and Obama.


The left is not the group talking about death panels that do not exist and other misinformation.  And no, the majority of Americans when asked stated that they really did not read or understand the law much but that they "heard" bad things about it.





SIGNATURE


"In the 13 months that I've been in the Senate, it has become apparent to me that the single thing that Republicans fear the most -- and that is when they're forced to tell the truth. It makes their heads explode," Ted Cruz 2/13/14

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kosh_vh
Community Member
Posts: 1,741
Registered: ‎10-02-2005

Re: O-bomb-O Care Sucks

in reply to bertrambabe2010

bertrambabe2010 wrote:

Millions of people still do not understand the program thanks to the lies being spread by the right and once they actually do see the advantages will change their minds - that is what is worrying the Republicans so much about it.


The problem is many people do understand the program that is why they are against it despite the lies being told by the far left and Obama.




* Kosh *
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bertrambabe2010
Community Member
Posts: 3,629
Registered: ‎04-25-2011

Re: O-bomb-O Care Sucks

in reply to kosh_vh

Millions of people still do not understand the program thanks to the lies being spread by the right and once they actually do see the advantages will change their minds - that is what is worrying the Republicans so much about it.





SIGNATURE


"In the 13 months that I've been in the Senate, it has become apparent to me that the single thing that Republicans fear the most -- and that is when they're forced to tell the truth. It makes their heads explode," Ted Cruz 2/13/14

Please use plain text.
kosh_vh
Community Member
Posts: 1,741
Registered: ‎10-02-2005

Re: O-bomb-O Care Sucks

in reply to heckelandjeckel

Ok I do like the title.




* Kosh *
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stamphick!
Community Member
Posts: 1,782
Registered: ‎02-11-2006

Re: O-bomb-O Care Sucks

in reply to kathieskorner

By the way don't many of those bronze plans leave participants on the hook for large annual deductibles and co-pays??  Subsidies don't apply to them.

 


Yes, and the silver plans do too. 



It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.-- Calvin Coolidge
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Community Member
Posts: 2,835
Registered: ‎01-26-2003

Re: O-bomb-O Care Sucks

in reply to heckelandjeckel

Btw...part of Kaiser Family Foundation report, which analyzed the available insurance information, is that premiums are generally lower than projected by CBO ....suggesting the federal budgetary cost for tax credits will be lower than anticipated.

http://kaiserfamilyfoundation.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/early-look-at-premiums-and-participation-i... 

 

The Kaiser Family Foundation report draws a conclusion based on CBO guesstimates - the CBO rate was based on  assumptions provided by the architects of the ACA.  Most rate comparisons pick out 2-3 age groups for comparison - 25 yr olds and 40 yr olds being the most popular.  There is no way to know what the age breakdown will be for those that sign up.  If more 50-60 yr olds sign up or more lower income people entitled to higher subsidies - the cost to taxpayers will be much higher than the unlikely event of more 25-30 yr olds signing up or more people entitled to lower subsidies. 

 

And don't forget the medical plan head tax which HHS will use to cushion insurance companies against accepting all those enrollees with health issues and which they hope will help hold exchange rates down through 2016 after which Obama is safely out of office.   As pointed out before Obamacare will probably be no different from Medicare Part D when it comes to underestimated cost to taxpayers.   

 

By the way don't many of those bronze plans leave participants on the hook for large annual deductibles and co-pays??  Subsidies don't apply to them.

 

Personally,  I'd rather my tax dollars go to subsidize health savings accounts than health insurance companies. 

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Community Member
Posts: 1,896
Registered: ‎07-06-2011

Re: O-bomb-O Care Sucks

in reply to nacra43

nacra43 wrote:
 

Btw...part of Kaiser Family Foundation report, which analyzed the available insurance information, is that premiums are generally lower than projected by CBO ....suggesting the federal budgetary cost for tax credits will be lower than anticipated.

http://kaiserfamilyfoundation.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/early-look-at-premiums-and-participation-i...  (page 8)

 


I wonder if insurance companies aren't lowballing the cost the first year to suck in customers like they did when Medicare Part D went into effect.  I remember helping my elderly mother sign up.  The first year her premium was $1.00/month.  It has gone up sharply every year since then.  It will now be $43.00/month.  That means it has raised 4300%.

I recently got a letter from my state telling me that I could sign up for marketplace exchange Oct. 1.  That is only a few days away, but the govt website gives very little information.  It makes it difficult to plan, or to know what the heck is going on.  My biggest concern is what it will cover and if my local hospital and doctors will accept it.  No info on coverage whatsoever.

 

It did tell me that I can also look into private insurance, however, there is no possibility of govt subsidies outside of the marketplace exchange option and that it will be more expensive.  Sounds to me like the govt is doing everything it can to push out private insurance and install a single payer system (which was obvious from the beginning no matter how much it was denied).

___________________________________________________________________________

2605 Americans were murdered on American soil September 11, 2001. Never forget.

The identity of the murders and their ideology should not be forgotten. Ever.
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Community Member
Posts: 1,347
Registered: ‎01-31-2003

Re: O-bomb-O Care Sucks

[ Edited ]
in reply to kathieskorner

How many healthy 27-35 yr olds (as will as those younger not covered by a parental plan) will rush to pay $1200 or more for health insurance as opposed to pay a $95 fine????

 

The penalty is $95 or 1% of gross income in 2014, whichever is greater.  The penalty will rise to 2.5%  by 2016.  It will end up much higher than $95 for some.

 

So...how many will opt to get something for their money v. paying a penalty and not having any health insurance?  I don't know.  I"ve always had health insurance.  I think many want it and don't feel they can afford it.  Maybe they can now and will want it..  We will see soon enough.

 

Btw...part of Kaiser Family Foundation report, which analyzed the available insurance information, is that premiums are generally lower than projected by CBO ....suggesting the federal budgetary cost for tax credits will be lower than anticipated.

http://kaiserfamilyfoundation.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/early-look-at-premiums-and-participation-i...  (page 8)

 

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jlh1973mu
Community Member
Posts: 3,110
Registered: ‎04-03-2007

Re: O-bomb-O Care Sucks

in reply to arlinedak

arlinedak wrote:

For millions of people it does not suck


you do realize that those millions will pay a fine if they don't sign up for coverage right?

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pdbposting
Community Member
Posts: 2,257
Registered: ‎05-25-2009

Re: O-bomb-O Care Sucks

in reply to svtr44

Yeah, I guess when one is on total government assistance and below the poverty line OC is a good thing, seeing that they are exempt.

 

Something to be proud of *sigh*

----------------------------------------------------------------
Tolerance vs Acceptance.....Embrace the difference
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Community Member
Posts: 195
Registered: ‎01-11-2004

Re: O-bomb-O Care Sucks

in reply to arlinedak

arlinedak wrote:

For millions of people it does not suck



Heads in sand.......... hoping someone can figure it out one of these days, but I doubt it. 

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Community Member
Posts: 2,835
Registered: ‎01-26-2003

Re: O-bomb-O Care Sucks

in reply to heckelandjeckel

A note to patrick, north of the border:

 

Unfortunately, the full fiscal impact of the implementation of Obamacare won't be felt in time for either the 2014 or 2016 elections as implementation of parts of legislation continues through at least 2018.   Government data lags 18-24 months generally - we are currently getting reports for 2011 so there will be little actual data available before the 2014 election - just more guesstimates.. 

 

Secondly, the biggest beneficiaries of the ACA are the insurance companies, and many have been lowballing their exchange rates so that they qualify to participate.  Should the "young invincibles" choose not to participate in sufficient numbers and if healthcare costs continue to increase -  there will be justification to increase those premiums.   How many healthy 27-35 yr olds (as will as those younger not covered by a parental plan) will rush to pay $1200 or more for health insurance as opposed to pay a $95 fine????

 

And there are inequities in the system.  A health exchange plan in Vermont cost $413/mo while the same exchange plan cost only $292/mo in DC.  Since individuals pay the same subsidized amount - $110/mo in this case - that means federal taxpayers will be paying substantially higher subsidies to the Vermont insurance company than the one in DC.  

 

And let's not forget the head tax.... 

 

The Obama administration is tacking on an annual $63-a-head charge to medical plans to cover the cost of covering people with pre-existing conditions.

 

The temporary charge is set to begin in 2014 and last three years before declining. The report says that funds will go toward a U.S. Department of Health and Human Services fund to provide cushion for health insurance companies' costs, once insurers no longer can refuse medical assistance starting Jan. 1, 2014.

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Community Member
Posts: 2,835
Registered: ‎01-26-2003

Re: O-bomb-O Care Sucks

in reply to heckelandjeckel

Anyone following the amount of subsidies taxpayers will be on the hook for......

 

The assistance is available to those with incomes of up to four times the federal poverty level -- this year, that's $45,960 for an individual or $94,200 for a family of four -- and will be scaled to ensure that folks don't pay more than a designated percentage (the exact target varies by income level) of their earnings toward the premium. The subsidy will be paid directly to the insurance company.

 

It is estimated that 36 million will be eligible for subsidies.  If unions manage to get their members eligible or dump them into exchanges it will be much higher than that.    Add on the cost of Medicaid expansion, and it will take more than Medicare "savings", fines on businesses and individuals that do not participate,  and all the Obamacare tax increases to make the ACA affordable for the taxpayers expected to foot the bill. 

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