Buyer gave me + feedback but wants refund (he "changed his mind"). I don't allow returns.What to do?

[jaymalkin]

I shipped a delicate vintage electronic amplifier to the winning bidder who received it and gave me a Positive Feedback.  Now, he wants to return it (the only reason is that he "changed his mind").   I have a No Return policy since these items are delicate and will get damaged if not packed correctly should a buyer try to return it.   It takes me a long, long time to pack items like this and I don't think that I should have to accept his return request.

By the way, I'm in the US and the buyer is a "freight forwarder" acting on behalf of a person in Japan.  Apparently, the person in Japan "changed his mind" as mentioned above.   I don't ship outside the US, but many buyers of vintage electronics in Asia use "forwarding companies" based in the US  (the forwarding company buys the item, you ship it to the US address, and then the forwarding company ships it to the person in Japan who pays them for it).   I have no idea if the item is still in the US or if it actually made its way to Japan.   I don't accept refunds on vintage electronics just because of situations like this.   Are there any risks if I simply decline the refund?  Again, I already have positive feedback on this item.

[tunicaslot]

Has the item already been shipped overseas to Japan do you know? If the ship forwarder still has it in their possession - I'd tell them to return for refund. Even tho you have a no return policy - this is Ebay and they could lie and say the item is not as decribed and you'd then have to accept the return and pay the return shipping fee to boot.

If the buyer in Japan has already received the item - they no longer are covered under the Money Back Guarentee as they used the freight forwarder so I would not accept the return. That doesn't stop them from opening a return through Paypal or doing a chargeback on their credit card - where you have no option really but to accept the return.

[jaymalkin]

Thanks for the response.  I have no idea where the item is right now.  This is a delicate item and I don't want it shipped back.  How can the buyer make any kind of a claim that the item is "not as described" when I've already received positive feedback on the item?  Also, he sent me a long message simply saying that he changed his mind and is "sorry" that he "has to cancel" this transaction.   Nothing in the long message says anything about "not as described".   I don't see how he could win if he filed a further claim with Ebay or Paypal.

If the item was really "not as described" or was damaged, I'd take it back immediately.    But, in this case, I can't see any reason why I should take it back.  It took me over an hour to pack it and I had to buy special packing materials for it.  Frankly speaking, I see too many Ebay sellers who "roll over" and give refunds when they are totally  innocent of any wrongdoing.   This case seems absurd to me:  (1) I have a "no refunds" policy that is clearly stated; (2) the "buyer" has already given me positive feedback; and (3) the buyer sent me a long message simply saying that he "changed his mind" and that he is "very sorry" and realizes that he has to pay the return postage (how generous!)  GRRRR!   Anyway, that's the situation right now. 

[llllady]

If you have a no returns policy, and the buyer opened up a return based on changing their mind, you do not have to accept the return.  What might happen is that eBay may tell them to keep the item, and issue the return out of their own pocket (funded, of course, on the backs of all sellers).  Out of curiosity, how much time has passed between the purchase and the return request?  Was it long enough to be shipped abroad?

Even if a seller's return policy says they don't accept returns, you can still open a return request. Here are your options:

• If you've changed your mind or made a mistake, you can still request a return, but please be aware the seller doesn't have to accept your return.
• If your item is damaged, or doesn't match the listing description, you're covered by the eBay Money Back Guarantee.

[jaymalkin]

Hi and thanks for the reply.   At this point, I don't know if the item made it's way to Japan (it would depend on how they shipped it there).    My guess is that the item is still here in the US since it's only been about 7  or 8 days.   I guess that my main question is how can a buyer open an Ebay or Paypal claim if I've already received positive feedback on the item (and a letter clearly stating that the only grounds for returning it are that he "changed his mind" and that he is "sorry" and will pay for return shipping)?   By the way, Paypal has placed a "hold" on the funds that I received for this transaction which I don't understand since I did receive a message from Ebay saying that I'm not obligated to give him a refund.

[*madison]

 How can the buyer make any kind of a claim that the item is "not as described" when I've already received positive feedback on the item

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Positive feedback doesn't make any difference, buyers can still file not as described claims and win.

[jaymalkin]

Thanks for the reply, but I don't see how anyone who is handling this dispute either at Ebay or Paypal would see a Positive Feedback on an item and then side with the buyer on a "not as described claim".    In other words, why would a buyer give a positive feedback on an item that is "not as described"???    I can't see how the buyer would possibly win in that kind of situation.   Yes, I agree that they could technically file a claim.  But, how on earth could they win?    I"m going to call Ebay as soon as they open and see that they say about this. 

[*help_no_brakes*]

" but I don't see how anyone who is handling this dispute either at Ebay or Paypal would see a Positive Feedback on an item and then side with the buyer on a "not as described claim". 

Just chiming in...the feedback means NOTHING to eBay or PayPal in a SNAD.

"  I"m going to call Ebay as soon as they open and see that they say about this. "

Please come back here BEFORE you act on ANY advice you receive from CS.

[jaymalkin]

Thanks for the response.  Once I talk to Ebay, I'll let you all know what they say.

But, once again, how can positive feedback mean nothing in a SNAD?????  Positive feedback  means that the buyer is satisfied with the item.  Period.  How can a buyer be satisfied with an item that is "not as described".   I'm sorry but I don't believe that positive feedback would mean nothing in a dispute with Ebay or Paypal.    I would love to hear from someone who actually received positive feedback on an item and then lost a SNAD claim.   And, I have the message from the buyer who must have apologized 3 times for "changing his mind".     Actually, if this was a small non-delicate item that was easy to pack, I'd do the refund just to be nice.  But, vintage tube-type amps are a real pain to pack and ship.  They have to be double boxed and all of the tubes need to be removed from the amplifier and separately wrapped.  Sometimes, on a complex amp, it takes me well over an hour to pack them.   

[penguins_dont_fly]

---

@jaymalkin wrote:

Thanks for the response.  I have no idea where the item is right now.  This is a delicate item and I don't want it shipped back.  How can the buyer make any kind of a claim that the item is "not as described" when I've already received positive feedback on the item?

A buyer has 30 days past the delivery date (or estimated delivery date) to file an MBG Claim, 180 Days from payment on PayPal. Feedback has absolutely no bearing on whether or not a buyer can open a claim.

Also, he sent me a long message simply saying that he changed his mind and is "sorry" that he "has to cancel" this transaction.   Nothing in the long message says anything about "not as described".   I don't see how he could win if he filed a further claim with Ebay or Paypal.

If the item was really "not as described" or was damaged, I'd take it back immediately.

Of course you would ... And you would pay return shipping ... that's the eBay MBG. 

But, in this case, I can't see any reason why I should take it back.  It took me over an hour to pack it and I had to buy special packing materials for it.  Frankly speaking, I see too many Ebay sellers who "roll over" and give refunds when they are totally  innocent of any wrongdoing.

This case seems absurd to me:  (1) I have a "no refunds" policy that is clearly stated;

No ... you have a "no returns" policy. "No Returns" does not equal "No refunds"

Your no returns only covers remorse. Any Item Not as Described is covered under the MBG. It's right there on your listings (on everybody's listings):

(2) the "buyer" has already given me positive feedback;

See my first response. And why is "buyer" in quotes? The individual has paid for the item, he is a buyer.

and (3) the buyer sent me a long message simply saying that he "changed his mind" and that he is "very sorry" and realizes that he has to pay the return postage (how generous!)  GRRRR!   Anyway, that's the situation right now. 

A return request for remorse is not a Claim.

It becomes a claim only if it is for INAD and the buyer escalates it.

This guy does not sound like a scammer ... he has given  "changed mind" as a reason and knows he will need to pay return shipping if you agree to the return. Haven't you ever bought something and had remorse over it and returned it?

Scammers go for the throat ... not as Described, broken, missing pieces. They know that a seller has to pay return shipping and refund their full purchase price under the MBG (or suffer the consequences with defects). They hope that a seller will just refund them without a return ... or they return the proverbial "box of rocks". They don't apologize politely and offer to pay return shipping.

All that being said ...

If this is truly a remorse return, you can just deny the return, because you have a no returns policy.  

You can either deny the return or say "return for refund".

Be polite with your denial, if you go that way.

"Dear Buyer, we are sorry, but due to the delicate nature of the item, it was sold with a No Returns policy. Thank You. Seller"

---

 And ... I know this is a long post already ... buy just FYI ...

these are the reasons that eBay gives to a buyer in the dropdown return menu: (pink are INAD, black are remorse). The "reason for return" (not any comments in the box) determine the type of return request.

Doesn't fit
Changed my mind
Found a better price
Just didn't like it
Ordered by mistake
Doesn't work or defective
Doesn't match description or photos
Wrong item sent
Missing parts or pieces
Arrived damaged
Doesn't seem authentic

[jaymalkin]

Thanks for the message.  I realize that the buyer can technically file a claim.  But, winning is another matter.   In this case, taking into account the positive feedback and the letter from the buyer, he is going to lose his case in my view. 

Regarding who is the buyer, you are incorrect that the person is Japan is the buyer.  He is not the buyer from both a technical and legal standpoint.  The "freight forwarder" is the buyer - they are the ones that bid on the item under their own name and they are the ones that paid.    This is clear. If there is any claim to be filed, the freight forwarder will have to file it, not the guy in Japan.   But, unfortunately, all of these additional circumstances makes the current situation even more complex.

Of course I've bought things that I want to return.  In such a situation, you just take it back to the store.  In my case, I spent a lot of time, effort and expense in packing and shipping the amp.  These amps are heavy and difficult to pack/ship.  They are complex pieces of electronic equipment that can't just be sent back and forth without risk.

By the way, I do appreciate your long reply and I value your opinion and all others.  Right not, I'm just extremely irritated with this whole "ooops, I changed my mind" thing, especially in view of the work involved in packing and shipping vintage electronics.   

[starroute-us]

I would decline the return, BTW reshipped items are not covered under the ebay MBG.

They could run to PP and file SNAD although they would be paying for the return shipping.

[tunicaslot]

The buyer has already offered to pay for the return shipping so he won't care about that.

OP - you have to do what's right for you - but as I said before I'd accept the return - the buyer was gracious - already knew he'd  pay return shipping and you may have lost a future customer. As you said - you've bought stuff and then took it back and returned it.

Guess I just am happy when a buyer is honest about a return than when they lie about it. 

[retrose1]

The positive feedback might have been left by the reshipper when they received the item.

OP, do not call ebay.  ebay call in CS are notorious for giving out poor advice - much of it is detrimental to the seller.  Some of the heavily accented ones can not read English.  So calling will get you nowhere, except frustrateed right now.

If you have a No Returns policy - you can refuse them.  Do that.  If they emailed, respond to them that you are sorry but you clearly stated in your listing that you do not accept returns on this item because the unit is delicate and you did not want to subject it to multiple trips.  That the time to have decided they changed their mind was before they won the listing or within an hour of winning as ebay expects sellers to ship quickly.  That reshippers are notorious for repacking items and so you can only guarantee safe delivery to the US destination.

The buyer is in Japan, and the Japanese are an understanding culture if you are polite in your explainations and not dismissive.  I personally have never had a problem with a Japanese buyer and I have shipped hundred of items there.

If they have filed a return request, just say no and explain why.  Do not say yes for any reason at this point in the negotiation.  If you say yes with conditions, ebay will only take your word that you said return and ignore any of your conditions.  For example, if you say that it's ok to return it and you will refund if there is no damage, it could come back crushed and ebay will say that you authorized the return - therefore you MUST refund if you got anything back. 

Happened to me.  ebay will not listen or accept that you authorized the return of YOUR item in as shipped condition, ebay will only see that the buyer returned something so you must refund.

If you do not want to ship International at all, then you should block non-US account payments in your paypal.  It may not block all reshippers, but it should put a stop to a lot of them.

[penguins_dont_fly]

---

@jaymalkin wrote:

Thanks for the message.  I realize that the buyer can technically file a claim.  But, winning is another matter.   In this case, taking into account the positive feedback and the letter from the buyer, he is going to lose his case in my view. 

Regarding who is the buyer, you are incorrect that the person is Japan is the buyer.  He is not the buyer from both a technical and legal standpoint.  The "freight forwarder" is the buyer - they are the ones that bid on the item under their own name and they are the ones that paid.    This is clear. If there is any claim to be filed, the freight forwarder will have to file it, not the guy in Japan.   But, unfortunately, all of these additional circumstances makes the current situation even more complex.

Of course I've bought things that I want to return.  In such a situation, you just take it back to the store.  In my case, I spent a lot of time, effort and expense in packing and shipping the amp.  These amps are heavy and difficult to pack/ship.  They are complex pieces of electronic equipment that can't just be sent back and forth without risk.

By the way, I do appreciate your long reply and I value your opinion and all others.  Right not, I'm just extremely irritated with this whole "ooops, I changed my mind" thing, especially in view of the work involved in packing and shipping vintage electronics.   

---

You keep saying "claim".

At this point in time, there is no claim.

There is a return request for remorse open. "Changed Mind"=Remorse.

You can deny the return.

There is no "winning" or "losing" involved here.

If, when you deny the return, they go to PayPal and try to open an INAD (PayPal does not cover remorse), then you can present your case to PayPal that the claim is false ... because of the previous communications saying "changed mind" ... or ... take the return with the buyer paying for shipping.

If it were me ... I would accept the return. The buyer is being polite and gracious. Good customer service goes a long way .... And the Japanese buyers have deep pockets 🙂