Does Paypal/Ebay ALWAYS side with buyers?

[ragsnrobots]

Recently I had a buyer message me that he had received his package but that I had forgotten to put the actual item in there. Of course I smelled a scam immediately, because it's something that I only ever took out of the original box to photograph, and I always weigh the entire thing on a digital scale before I print the shipping label. I asked the buyer if the box might have been opened and stolen during transit, but he adamantly claimed it was well sealed the way I described it being, and I had taped it up so well it would have been apparent if it had been opened. Looking at the buyer's history, he's run this same scam on 5 out of 9 his last transactions.

He first wanted to be refunded without going through Ebay or Paypal's resolution center (not, or course, for me to just ship the item I "left out.") I told me that if he could sent me a picture of the shipping label showing that it was 9 oz (the weight of the item) lighter than it should be, I would immediately refund him...but of course he couldn't because I have a receipt, a screenshot of the browser history where I paid the full amount for the weight of the item, and even another picture of the same item in another color, which, with packaging, weighs exactly the same.

I spent half of this nice long weekend outlining my full case in a document to paypal, including pictures and the messages back and forth to the buyer in which he blatantly lies multiple times. He even lied about things that were clearly visible in his own pictures.

Naively, I thought I actually had a case, but in less than 2 hours, Paypal had ruled against me. I appealed to no avail.

I almost feel all the effort I put into making my case wasn't worth it, especially on one of the few days I have off from my full time job, but I don't feel right just rolling over and giving into scammers. I have read on these forums that Ebay and Paypal will pretty much ALWAYS side with buyers. I guess this is true? And what do you seasoned sellers do to protect yourselves from these situations besides buying shipping insurance, which I don't think would have covered me in this case anyway? Sorry for this long story, and I wish it had a different ending.

[old_man_arthur]

I have had evilBay decide against me... Twice! X-(

[old_man_arthur]

-edit-

I have had evilBay decide against me As a Buyer... Twice! X-(:-p

[mintrobmint]

Buyer ID please....since you have had a transaction with them you can post it

[mintrobmint]

And BTW rags.....if your talking about those electronics you sell...I highly suggest buying insurance on those items....they are heavily scammed....and post the insurance investigation in your listings...

"All items will be insured by USPS Insurance for lost, broken or stolen items. If one of these claims is opened on your end you might be subject to a full USPS Federal investigation, I truly apologize for any inconvenience however I am bound by USPS insurance policy".....

Now that is the new eBay....! Especially on electronics and gadgets...;-)

[hidy-hoo]

Hi Rags - Have you talked to the other sellers that have dealt with this scammer?  If enough of you report him for pulling the same stunt, eBay has been known to reverse their decision.  I would message all of them ASAP!  And as minty asked, please let us know the ID!!

[pascals_outlet_us]

Excuse me but how do you sellers always know it when a buyer "lies," especially from a distance 100's of miles away, do you have them take a polygraph and if so, how are the results getting to you?

[ragsnrobots]

The buyer is angelnateajr2010. I strongly suggest you all add him to your Best Buddy List! And yes, in response to hidy-hoo, I did message all the other people who had been scammed by him and included their situations in my case to Paypal. I really thought that would help.

Mint, I will definitely take your suggestion. I had decided to only insure items over a certain amount, but I think it will save me in the long run to insure all the electronics. 

Topside, the one of the things he lied about was the weight; he said he could prove I shipped the box without the item by telling me the weight was 1 lb. 8 oz...but if you zoom in on the photo he took with his phone you can clearly see the weight says 2 lbs 12 oz. Probably he couldn't see the text on the screen on his phone and thought I wouldn't be able to either. I had asked him what the weight was because at first he didn't want to send pictures. He also said this had "never happened to him before" but he must have memory loss because it's happened 4 times. 

It's funny you should mention a polygraph...we decided that was probably the only way to win the case! Unless we put tracking devices in all our items >:-). 

[hidy-hoo]

Rags - In addition to including the other sellers experiences in your case, did you and the other sellers actually use the "report" button for his ID?  Call eBay again and show them the screen shot of the different weights - ask for Trust and Safety - and then call again, and again, until someone actually listens to you - but make sure that you all REPORT this guy.

[ragsnrobots]

I reported him and I hope the other sellers did too. When I tried to call Ebay, I kept getting conflicting information. One person said that since the buyer filed through the Paypal resolution center, I had to call them directly, so I did. The Paypal rep assured me they would carefully review all the information and would even call me back before they made a decision. I wrote the whole case out like I was preparing for court, including all the pictures, a screenshot of my shipping purchase that showed the weight, all the messages, etc. No one called me back.

I feel like calling does no good. They all sound like they are reading from a script and I'm not sure that whoever read my document really understood it. I might try one more time and ask for Trust and Safety like you suggested. I never thought to ask for a specific department. If they try to route me back to Paypal though, I'm going to hang up. 

If that doesn't work, well, lesson learned and move on. Eventually this guy's activity will draw suspicion and then maybe his scamming days will be over. 

[billy_biggle_fan]

There is no guarantee that you'll win on a second appeal, but here is the best way to appeal a decision:

First, file a fraud report with both the Postal Inspectors and you local police department.  Get copies of the reports.  It doesn't matter if they take any action or not (the feds will investigate, your local PD might not).  You just need documentation of the incident.

Second, call eBay or PayPal, whoever the case was filed through, and ask to speak to a Resolution Center specialist.  Note the reps name that you speak to.  Inform them that you feel their decision was made in error, you would like them to reopen the appeal in this 1 instance, and that you have official documentation as evidence that you can fax to them, preferably while you are still on the phone.  Have them confirm receipt of the faxed documents.  If they must return your call, fine.  If they don't return within 1 business day, call them back and speak to the same rep.

Third, while you are on the phone, repeat your report that, after having spoken with several other sellers, this buyer seems to be abusing the Buyer Protection process.  Though they won't be able to share any details, ask them to review this buyer's account history.

Again, there is no guarantee that you'll win on appeal.  However, having official documentation of a fraud or other illegal activity will greatly help your case.

And yes, eBay and PayPal side with buyer's 95% of the time.  Well, unless you are OMA, apparently.  To help cover this from a selling perspective, you can include a small % in your price to cover the occasional loss.

[komokwa]

Excuse me but how do you sellers always know it when a buyer "lies," especially from a distance 100's of miles away, do you have them take a polygraph and if so, how are the results getting to you?

This is your helpfull advice ?

We've head enough stories like this , with the details that Rags provided , to have a pretty good sense that the buyer is a lieing scammer.

We've also seen enough posters who have nothing but negative tripe to add to a thread  !

They're so easy to spot !

[ragsnrobots]

Just an update on this saga...after a month Paypal decided the case in my favor! I had opened an appeal after the first dispute and it was closed with no comment and my money not refunded so I assumed I lost again, but today I noticed the money was credited back to my account. 

I am so thrilled...I spent a very long time putting together documentation that I felt proved the buyer was not being truthful and I had been pretty upset thinking I lost after all that. 

Finally, a victory for the seller!

[hondamedic]

 

Finally, a victory for the seller!

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Sometimes perseverance is rewarded here at eBay/PayPal!

[cowa-bunga]

i just had a similar experience.  buyer bought my old iphone with a case.  after a week of it being "received" at the address i shipped it to, i get a rather hostile message from the buyer accusing me of not sending the phone and there was no way i shipped the phone because the weight of the box as around 2oz.  when i shipped the items...heavily bubble wrapped and taped...the weight was 3lb.  buyer was very hostile and asked me to just refund the money or send the phone.  i kept asking questions about the condition of the box and why did it take so long for him to contact me.  he kept ignoring questions about the condition of the box but finally admitted there was no bubble wrap and that it took so long because he had only just gotten the phone because he is in the country of georgia.  i clearly stated no international shipping...but even though i sent this to a US address, the buyer admitted this was an international shipping center.  sounds like a perfect atmosphere for a scam.  the buyer escalated the case with ebay and after a month, ebay sides with they buyer!!!.  i reported the buyer twice during this process because ebay was not asking me any questions about what my side was.  

i am so unhappy with ebay right now...i'll probably never use this service again.  now i'm out a phone and i have to reimburse ebay for the amount they paid the seller.  and i just noticed the buyer left me negative feedback while the case was still open....but i can't leave negative feedback about him....other than report him to ebay under their cloak of darkness.  how is this protecting the seller?

any thoughts or advice would be greatly appreciated.