FRAUD

[cgib9566]

Be warned of anyone trying to purchase a 1989 Porsche Turbo from a seller. He does not have the title under his name, and is listing the car to obtain people's deposits. He told me that he never had the title changed over, and that he did not have a dealer's license. He therefore does not have legal right to sell car. 

BUYERS BEWARE. 

[legitimate_bidder]

Correction: If he acquired the car legally- i.e. did not steal, he has all the right in the world to sell it. The fact that he didn't put the title in his name, may mean that the car may not be able to be registered/titled by the person he sells it to- which of course is a big problem if he is selling the car as an operable usable car.....

A little negative feedback from you, and hopefully from anyone else he tried/s to sell the car to without first disclosing the title issue or refunding the deposit, will help shut him down. Unfortunately, with Ebay, it's a catch 22- they won't entertain a VPP claim if you haven't paid in full for the car (Which of course you don't want to do) but it might pay to call Ebay and talk to their Vehicle Purchase Protection rep (and them only! Not the regular core Ebay bozos).

Be glad that you're only losing the deposit. If the guy is shady, and you didn't see this nearly 30 year-old car first....who knows what you'd be getting...but it probably wouldn't be pretty!

Buy locally!

[ripsmc]

Legitimate-bidder is correct that someone can sell a car without having a dealer license. All or most states limit the number that can be sold without holding a dealer license though. The number is usually 2 to 5 or something like that.

However, (and speaking for Oklahoma anyway) not having a dealer license and not transferring the title into his name before resale is a huge no-no. That falls under the name of title-jumping or curbstoning.

You could turn him in for that but I'd be surprised if it went anywhere.

[atikovi]

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@cgib9566 wrote:

 He told me that he never had the title changed over, and that he did not have a dealer's license. He therefore does not have legal right to sell car. 

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$16K? I remember not long ago when you could get these for $3,000 or $4,000. 

Yes, while not a correct thing to do, I can understand why he did it, to avoid paying sales tax. Doesn't seem fair he would have to pay the same sales tax on a car he bought a month ago to flip, as one he will own for 10 years. Bottom line is how bad you want the car and how good of a deal it is. As long as the title and other paperwork is good, your DMV wont have an issue with what he did if you don't tell them.

[autopartspuller]

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@cgib9566 wrote:

Be warned of anyone trying to purchase a 1989 Porsche Turbo from a seller. He does not have the title under his name, and is listing the car to obtain people's deposits. He told me that he never had the title changed over, and that he did not have a dealer's license. He therefore does not have legal right to sell car. 

BUYERS BEWARE. 

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I am unsure about Mass. law but, not all states require you to transfer the title of the car to sell it.  Some states, like Maryland, you only need to have possession of the signed title and proof of purchase/sale to be the owner and to resell the vehicle.  That is as long as you are not selling more that the state limit w/o a Dealership licsense per year.    He does not have to operate under your state's laws.  Only his.

[legitimate_bidder]

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@atikovi wrote:

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@cgib9566 wrote:

 He told me that he never had the title changed over, and that he did not have a dealer's license. He therefore does not have legal right to sell car. 

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$16K? I remember not long ago when you could get these for $3,000 or $4,000. 

Yes, while not a correct thing to do, I can understand why he did it, to avoid paying sales tax. Doesn't seem fair he would have to pay the same sales tax on a car he bought a month ago to flip, as one he will own for 10 years. Bottom line is how bad you want the car and how good of a deal it is. As long as the title and other paperwork is good, your DMV wont have an issue with what he did if you don't tell them.

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Yep! That is true. As long as the title was properly filled-out and signed by the person whose name is on the front, and hasn't had the date filled in yet/or the date is within the limits of how long you have to transfer a title in your state, and he has a bill of sale (if required by his state) made out by the guy whose name is on the title...it'll work even in the most persnickety state. No one would be any the wiser. And it's not a bad thing, because it only accomplishes what a dealer would be doing anyway- i.e. they get to be the middle man without having to pay sales tax for every car that passes through their hands, because they are not actually using those cars...so why shouldn't WE have the same right? Instead, the state makes you buy that right in the form of a license, to do what is technically your right to do: To enter into contracts and buy, sell, and trade property.

[atikovi]

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@autopartspuller wrote:

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 Some states, like Maryland, you only need to have possession of the signed title and proof of purchase/sale to be the owner and to resell the vehicle.  

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Umm, thats an open title. Illegal in every state.

[autopartspuller]

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@atikovi wrote:

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@autopartspuller wrote:

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 Some states, like Maryland, you only need to have possession of the signed title and proof of purchase/sale to be the owner and to resell the vehicle.  

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Umm, thats an open title. Illegal in every state.

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No it's not.

[autopartspuller]

As per MD MVA: The seller must sign and print his or her name and the buyer’s name and address on the back side of the “Certificate of Title” under the “Assignment of Ownership” section. The buyer’s name and address must be recorded in the “Assignment of Ownership” section to complete the sale.  Once this is done, "Assignment of Ownership" is complete.  Without the name, the title is considered “open” and will not be recognized by the MVA for registration.

[marinermikes]

I just did one from Michigan to Pa.  I went and picked the car and title up. The owner was not present when I changed it over. Pa. required a photo copy of the person who's name is on the title. That's Pa.

If you were to end up with the car you would need a copy of the person drivers license who's name is on the title or your not getting a title. Once again, that's Pennsylvania.

You would need to find out what your state requires and then find out if the seller can produce every thing before you finish paying for the car.

I would not sell a car that way but it's been done many a time.

[atikovi]

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@autopartspuller wrote:

The buyer’s name and address must be recorded in the “Assignment of Ownership” section to complete the sale.  Once this is done, "Assignment of Ownership" is complete. 

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Thats fine but so what? You can't sell it on by handing that over to the person you want to sell it to. You have to get a title in your name first.

[autopartspuller]

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@atikovi wrote:

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@autopartspuller wrote:

The buyer’s name and address must be recorded in the “Assignment of Ownership” section to complete the sale.  Once this is done, "Assignment of Ownership" is complete. 

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Thats fine but so what? You can't sell it on by handing that over to the person you want to sell it to. You have to get a title in your name first.

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Yes you can.  Certainly not illegal.

[autopartspuller]

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@marinermikes wrote:

I just did one from Michigan to Pa.  I went and picked the car and title up. The owner was not present when I changed it over. Pa. required a photo copy of the person who's name is on the title. That's Pa.

If you were to end up with the car you would need a copy of the person drivers license who's name is on the title or your not getting a title. Once again, that's Pennsylvania.

You would need to find out what your state requires and then find out if the seller can produce every thing before you finish paying for the car.

I would not sell a car that way but it's been done many a time.

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PA is required to obey the laws of the state it's titled in.  I grew up there and have actually sold a car to my brother who lives north of Pittsburgh.  They didnt require a copy of my Driver's license to change over a title. That being said, it's the DMV.   If they want to be a pain for some reason, they will be and you will certainly have to jump through some hoops to get the person at the DMV to actually obey the law.  Some states will really drag things out when you purchase from certain states.  I know this first hand also.  I have had to pop my head into my Attorney's office a couple times to deal with the DMV.

[atikovi]

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@autopartspuller wrote:

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@atikovi wrote:

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@autopartspuller wrote:

The buyer’s name and address must be recorded in the “Assignment of Ownership” section to complete the sale.  Once this is done, "Assignment of Ownership" is complete. 

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Thats fine but so what? You can't sell it on by handing that over to the person you want to sell it to. You have to get a title in your name first.

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Yes you can.  Certainly not illegal.

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So if you have the title from the guy you bought it from and your name and address is filled in as the buyer, where do you enter the name and address of the person you plan to sell it to?