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Does PGX Rating Bring Down The Value Of A Comic?

Over the years I have tried to sell a number of PGX rated comics with very little to no success.  Similiar comics rated CGC were no issue for me to sell.  I have contemplated taking the comics out of their PGX case and sell them outright as a raw ungraded comic.  Please give me your two cents worth on what you think of my question.  It may be kind of hard to believe taking a book out of it's case but when buyers seem to "turn up their nose at the PGX rating I feel it may be a good option.

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Does PGX Rating Bring Down The Value Of A Comic?


@comicdiablo wrote:

For anyone interested in a discussion of restoration errors related to CGC, you can read the following multi-page CGC forum thread:

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=7446805&fpart=1

If you have no desire to read through 73 pages of responses, then you can go to the last page of the thread (or page 72), which contains a concise summary of what a number of different forum members stated on the issue.


There's already a thread here about this that's like 2 weeks old, and it has an update about the new thread Litch started.

Message 106 of 176
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Does PGX Rating Bring Down The Value Of A Comic?


@comicdiablo wrote:

@comicdiablo wrote:

For anyone interested in a discussion of restoration errors related to CGC, you can read the following multi-page CGC forum thread:

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=7446805&fpart=1

If you have no desire to read through 73 pages of responses, then you can go to the last page of the thread (or page 72), which contains a concise summary of what a number of different forum members stated on the issue.


Okay, here's another thread on the CGC forum (a follow-up to the one above) regarding CGC's inconsistency in its restoration checks:

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=7585159&fpart=1

To summarize just one series of incidents (among many), a forum member had a Journey Into Mystery #83 (CGC blue label) graded 6.0. The owner thought that it should have graded higher and resubmitted it to CGC after cracking open the case. CGC then graded the same comic 7.0 with a purple (restored) label because of supposed trimming. The owner then sold the comic to someone else, and that person resubmitted the comic for grading. CGC then graded the same comic 6.0 with a blue label. Not only is the inconsistency regarding restoration disturbing, but the inconsistency in grading is quite disturbing as well.


That's only part of the story. Where's the rest of it  with the 3rd owner and the book going from a 2nd Purple label to its 3rd blue label ?

Message 107 of 176
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Does PGX Rating Bring Down The Value Of A Comic?


@forist603 wrote:

PGX graders are not nuimismatically certified like CGC graders are.

 



Say what?  None of the employees of CGC or PGX are certified in anything. Is there a grading school everyone goes to that I haven't heard about?

 


@forist603 wrote:

 I have a PGX Fantastic Four #250 that was graded at VG/FN 5.0 because the last page was missing and this did not affect the story. CGC would have graded this much lower.  


**bleep** right CGC would have, because it's the right thing to do (and we're talking Blue label, right? Green label would be different). If you seriously believe that a book missing a page should grade at a 5.0 you are whacked right out of your skull.

 


@forist603 wrote:

 PGX is more concerned with the actual general appearance of the book; CGC concentrates on nitty gritty details that may or may not be noticeable or worthy of consideration (depending on whom you ask). In the end, its all about the money.


 

Sounds like a good advertisement for CGC, no? But not for you, you want someone who's not going to sweat the details when grading, right?  lol

 


@forist603 wrote:

 In the end, its all about the money. If one pays enough money, one will receive whatever grades they want.  


So what's your excuse, you too much of a cheap ass to pay for the grades you want? lmao

 


@forist603 wrote:

 If you want to spend exorbitant membership fees and charges for grading books, then CGC is for you. This is why CGC books cost so much more than PGX graded books: the more money invested in second party outside grading, then the more the grading is worth to buyers.  


 

Boy, do you look stupid. There is no membership fee to submit to CGC, plus you get a free 10% discount. Anyone can send their books to CGC, you do NOT need to have a membership of ANY kind. All you need is a printer and a credit card.

 


@forist603 wrote:

 Use PGX to save money, not make it.


 

Lol, you've got that half right at least!

 


@forist603 wrote:

 Spend money on grading with CGC, and the money you invest should come back to you.

 


I thought you were anti-CGC?

 


@forist603 wrote:

I use PGX. I don't believe in tossing money to the wind.

 


But you believe in pissing into the wind, eh?

 

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Does PGX Rating Bring Down The Value Of A Comic?


@forist603 wrote:

I sell some PGX graded books, and these are legitimately graded books. I do not attempt to pass these off as numisimatically certified.  


What does that even mean? All you're doing is proving how out of touch you are. Are you saying that since PGX books are not  numisimatically certified, they are inferior to CGC's slabbing? Well then, I agree with you!

 


@forist603 wrote:

To sell the same CGC book that PGX would grade for just $20, one must pay high annual membership fees and high grading costs per book. 


Again, you are lying. You do NOT have to have ANY kind of membership to CGC to send them your books. NONE. NADA. And if you're talking about Modern books, it costs less than $20 (with the free 10% discount) to get them slabbed at CGC.


@forist603 wrote:

I collect both types. But when sending books off to be graded so as to become part of my private collection, I always use PGX. I believe to do otherwise merely tosses money to the wind. I think it would be better to buy gold and silver than CGC books for investment purposes.

 



If you're worried about saving money, why get your books slabbed at all? The only reason to get a book slabbed (except the peace of mind of CGC's resto detection) is to sell it. Anyone that get their books slabbed for their "private collection" is a fool and a hypocrite and is rightly parted from his money.

Message 109 of 176
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Does PGX Rating Bring Down The Value Of A Comic?


@sun_blaze9857 wrote:

 CGC is recognized by the CGC Colllection Society and now respected by many collectors as a good third-party grading company. 


 

Wrong.

 


@sun_blaze9857 wrote:

 CGC also grades coins, magazines, books, money, etc;


Really wrong.

 


@sun_blaze9857 wrote:

 They are not a fly-by nighter, and have established themselves within the industry. So, I would go to CGC and get my valued book slabbed. People will pay for CGC grades; they are known and respected within the industry. So, you're best to spend a little more and just go with CGC. With PGX you are tossing your money to the wind. CGC isn't 100% accurate, bt at least you will get an established company to grade your books.


Right!

Message 110 of 176
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Does PGX Rating Bring Down The Value Of A Comic?

I suppose it would be better than laminating your comics. Numismatology is the collection of coins, medals, and paper money. To grade these you need to be numismatically certified, but has nothing to do with comic collecting or grading. I think he had best stick with the laminating business. 🙂
Message 111 of 176
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Does PGX Rating Bring Down The Value Of A Comic?


@sun_blaze9857 wrote:
I suppose it would be better than laminating your comics. Numismatology is the collection of coins, medals, and paper money. To grade these you need to be numismatically certified, but has nothing to do with comic collecting or grading. I think he had best stick with the laminating business. 🙂
I agree. Like my name says, the Q Collection sucks!
Message 112 of 176
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Does PGX Rating Bring Down The Value Of A Comic?

Oh, it's you. I thought it was the QC guy, also. I was wondering, why is he so into this? Why am I not looking at scans of laminated old comics?

 

 

Message 113 of 176
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Does PGX Rating Bring Down The Value Of A Comic?


@the_q_collection_sucks wrote:
I read the stuff below, but you forgot one thing - the honesty. Where is it?

@comicdiablo wrote:


I have seen comics from both CGC and PGX on which I disagreed on the grade. Usually, this is the difference between NM+ and NM or between VF/NM and VF+ (not far off). Since grading is somewhat subjective, such discrepancies are understandable. In my experience, however, the most horribly graded comic I have seen out of hundreds was from CGC. It was a CGC 9.6 NM+ New Teen Titans #2 (First Deathstroke). The comic had several stress lines on the spine. In my opinion, without even looking inside of the book, this comic should have been graded 9.2 NM- at best. I was so disturbed by the grade that I quickly sold the comic. The guy who bought it snagged it for a great deal (about what a 9.2 usually would have sold for), which eased my conscience on the matter.


comicdiablo: Excuse me, sir with zero eBay feedback, I am very honest in all of my dealings. When a graded book is sold, it is sold on the basis of the third party grade, which in that case was CGC. I heavily disagreed with the grade, so I decided to part with the comic, which was at my expense because the comic sold for half as much as I paid for it on eBay. Apparently, the person who received the comic was satisfed, as positive feedback was received. However, none of this changes the fact that CGC graded a comic as 9.6 with several stress lines on the spine, which according to Overstreet grading guidelines should have graded much lower, perhaps a 9.2 or 9.0, which is the worse case of grading I have seen of all of the graded comics (CGC or PGX) that I have ever had in my possession.



@the_q_collection_sucks wrote:


@comicdiablo wrote:

. This is part of the reason why I take some of the criticisms that have been leveled against PGX across the years with skepticism (including the alleged TMNT grading incident from 2005). It does not match my personal experience, and there are obvious financial reasons that many individuals and businesses invested in CGC might have for trying to make the competition look bad.


You take the criticism leveled against PGX with skepticism because you already wasted your money with PGX! Of course you're not going to back down now, your pride and wallet would be hurt. You know you're a fool, but can't admit it. We know, we understand, people like you come around here all the time. I hope someday you'll come to your senses. Don't be a hypocrite, saying others have financial reasons to make others look bad, you're a prime example of that, and you're trying to do that righ here and now.

 


comicdiablo: Once again, you're wrong. I currently have no PGX-graded comics in my possession. I sold all of them. I did not get the comics graded that I did primarily for financial reasons; I got them graded primarily because I wanted to preserve some of the comics I treasured most that were in excellent condition. Yes, the reason that they were being sold was financial (because I needed supplemental income to help finance graduate school), but I just as well could have sold the comics ungraded, without paying money to have them graded and protected. Some sold for more than the money I put into them, and others sold for far less; but that's okay because comics I loved were graded and preserved, which eased my mind about having to let them go.

So to reiterate what I said about PGX grading, as opposed to what you mistakenly assumed (problems with reading comprehension, perhaps?):


@comicdiablo wrote:

I began collecting comics in 1993, worked for a comic shop for 2 years, have sold comics periodically on eBay since 2004, and have done extensive research on comic grading. When I sell, I grade very strictly and thoroughly and have never had a complaint about my grading. Now I'm going to give my honest view on the CGC vs. PGX grading debate.

I have gotten hundreds of comics graded with PGX. I have never been very dissatisfied with the grades I received from PGX, and it's not because PGX tends to overgrade. It's because the grade they assign has never been far off from my estimated grade. In fact, CGC and PGX grade quite similarly. I cannot speak for Silver Age comics or older and can only speak for grades ranging from 7.0 on up because I am a collector of high-grade comics from the Bronze Age and later.


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Does PGX Rating Bring Down The Value Of A Comic?


@comicdiablo wrote:

comicdiablo: Once again, you're wrong. I currently have no PGX-graded comics in my possession. I sold all of them. I did not get the comics graded that I did primarily for financial reasons; I got them graded primarily because I wanted to preserve some of the comics I treasured most that were in excellent condition. Yes, the reason that they were being sold was financial (because I needed supplemental income to help finance graduate school), but I just as well could have sold the comics ungraded, without paying money to have them graded and protected. Some sold for more than the money I put into them, and others sold for far less; but that's okay because comics I loved were graded and preserved, which eased my mind about having to let them go.



In the interest of full disclosure, I did begin collecting comics again after graduating with my final degree in 2012, but I recently had to sell many of my comics for a second time (some of which I got PGX graded) in order to help finance an early career move to CA. That's why as of right now, I am a Power Seller for the second time since becoming an eBay member in 2000 (the other time being when I sold comics to help finance grad school).

But as I said, I have no graded comics in my possession at this time. Now that finances have improved, I have started collecting comics once again, but all I have is 3 small boxes of ungraded comics. If I choose to sell more in the future, I very well may get some comics graded with PGX prior to selling them, but it surely won't be for profit's sake: Many of the PGX-graded comics that I have sold recently were sold at a financial loss to me, when one adds the cost of the comic itself and the expense of getting them shipped, insured, and graded, whereas others sold for a profit but a small profit at that, especially given eBay's higher fees as compared to when I first started selling comics on eBay in 2004. But comic collecting is more about sentimental value than about money to me, and as long as PGX does a good job of grading and preserving the comics I send them, I am satisfied with their service.

So again, the_q_collection_sucks, you couldn't be more far off in your assumptions about me. Now try to stick to the topic instead of resorting to unwarranted personal attacks.

Message 115 of 176
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Does PGX Rating Bring Down The Value Of A Comic?

Might want to stop keyword spamming CGC on all of your PGX listings. You know since you are so pleased with PGX's product. Not to mention the raw books that you included "CGC em" on, surely you meant "PGX em"?
Message 116 of 176
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Does PGX Rating Bring Down The Value Of A Comic?

 


@bpmcomics wrote:
Might want to stop keyword spamming CGC on all of your PGX listings. You know since you are so pleased with PGX's product. Not to mention the raw books that you included "CGC em" on, surely you meant "PGX em"?

Classic!

 

cheers

Message 117 of 176
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Does PGX Rating Bring Down The Value Of A Comic?


@bpmcomics wrote:
Might want to stop keyword spamming CGC on all of your PGX listings. You know since you are so pleased with PGX's product. Not to mention the raw books that you included "CGC em" on, surely you meant "PGX em"?

Wow, so now you're searching through my old eBay listings to find something, anything, that you can use as a personal attack against me instead of addressing the topic? You really are dedicated to CGC, aren't you?

I admit that I have not perfectly followed all of eBay's rules since I became a member 14 years ago; there have been minor rule violations here and there, but my dealings with buyers and sellers have been honest and fair, a fact in which I take pride. I also admit that I occasionally speed on the interstate and tell white lies.

However, none of that is relevant to the fact that during the past decade I have seen little difference between PGX and CGC grading (in regard to comics from the Bronze Age and later in grades of 7.0 or higher), and none of that changes the fact that out of hundreds of comics I have gotten graded by PGX, their grading has rarely been much different from my own grading estimates.

To be clear, I am not anti-CGC. I just value graded comics from both PGX and CGC and think that some of the same criticisms that are often leveled against PGX can also be leveled against CGC. In fact, I don't just think it; I know it from speaking with many other comic collectors and comic shop owners and from reading numerous CGC forum posts.

Message 118 of 176
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Does PGX Rating Bring Down The Value Of A Comic?


@the_q_collection_sucks wrote:

 


@bpmcomics wrote:
Might want to stop keyword spamming CGC on all of your PGX listings. You know since you are so pleased with PGX's product. Not to mention the raw books that you included "CGC em" on, surely you meant "PGX em"?

Classic!

 

cheers


 

Yes, far more classic than your current eBay feedback score of 0, or the fact that you joined eBay just a few days ago, probably to respond to this thread...

Message 119 of 176
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Does PGX Rating Bring Down The Value Of A Comic?


@comicdiablo wrote:

@bpmcomics wrote:
Might want to stop keyword spamming CGC on all of your PGX listings. You know since you are so pleased with PGX's product. Not to mention the raw books that you included "CGC em" on, surely you meant "PGX em"?

Wow, so now you're searching through my old eBay listings to find something, anything, that you can use as a personal attack against me instead of addressing the topic? You really are dedicated to CGC, aren't you?

I admit that I have not perfectly followed all of eBay's rules since I became a member 14 years ago; there have been minor rule violations here and there, but my dealings with buyers and sellers have been honest and fair, a fact in which I take pride. I also admit that I occasionally speed on the interstate and tell white lies.

However, none of that is relevant to the fact that during the past decade I have seen little difference between PGX and CGC grading (in regard to comics from the Bronze Age and later in grades of 7.0 or higher), and none of that changes the fact that out of hundreds of comics I have gotten graded by PGX, their grading has rarely been much different from my own grading estimates.

To be clear, I am not anti-CGC. I just value graded comics from both PGX and CGC and think that some of the same criticisms that are often leveled against PGX can also be leveled against CGC. In fact, I don't just think it; I know it from speaking with many other comic collectors and comic shop owners and from reading numerous CGC forum posts.


I almost forgot: I also admit that I have shipped comics using media mail, which is a violation of USPS policy. Shame on me, I know.

Wait...what do my trivial misdeeds have to do with PGX and CGC grading again? Oh, that's right, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

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