Does PGX Rating Bring Down The Value Of A Comic?

[dencher01]

Over the years I have tried to sell a number of PGX rated comics with very little to no success.  Similiar comics rated CGC were no issue for me to sell.  I have contemplated taking the comics out of their PGX case and sell them outright as a raw ungraded comic.  Please give me your two cents worth on what you think of my question.  It may be kind of hard to believe taking a book out of it's case but when buyers seem to "turn up their nose at the PGX rating I feel it may be a good option.

[bpmcomics]

 While a PGX book is still better than a non-slabbed book IMHO

I'm not convinced that's accurate anymore.  While PGX continues to allow one of their graders to slab his own books, it dilutes the supply of "good" PGX books.  Since they can't detect restoration even remotely reliably and you have the potential of getting stuck with an employee-owned and graded book... it might be a toss up.

[supa_lame]

  While a PGX book is still better than a non-slabbed book IMHO... 

But with an unslabbed book, you at least didn't waste any money getting it slabbed by a POS company.

[supa_lame]

Just an FYI, but Overstreet only goes up to 9.2 (NM-)

[supa_lame]

CGC and PGX grading by the numbers: Both companies now use the same scale and grading standard. Some have claimed PGX simply copied CGC.

I claim that, because I watched it happen.

However, comic grading standards and numbers were set by American Association of Comicbook Collectors (AACC) back in June of 1999. Because of the standard numbering and grading system set by AACC, neither CGC or PGX grades are any better than any other. It wouldn't then make any difference.

Do you have a link to this information? Because that's not the way I remember it at all. I don't remember  the AACC being involved in the grading debate on any chatboard, CBG, etc. I remember the Overstreet Grading Guide 1st edition coming out in the early 90s, and people being disappointed. The 100 point scale was unwieldy, but it was a start. So, it was debated in the CBG pages of "Oh So?" ( I wrote a letter complaining of Metro's use of grades like VF/VF++,  VF+++, etc.) and then eventually Metro came up with the idea to use a 10 point scale. This is where CGC got the idea from.

I found this online, but it just shows that the AACC was going to use the antiquated 100 point system, and we know the code of ethics never panned out either lol :

"There appears to be the start of a ground swell of collector and dealer support for a numerical standard that will not be perceived as biased in favor of any particular group.  I will let you know here and at the editorial area of any new developments and opinions in that area.  The current proposal (details to be provided as soon as they are available) calls for an official American Association of Comicbook Collectors (AACC) recognized grading scale and accompanying code of ethics. The numerical values on the scale will probably be the widely recognized 100 point system that is currently well established. "

10.0 Mint

9.9 Mint -

9.8 Near Mint/Mint

9.6 Near Mint +

9.4 Near Mint

9.2 Near Mint -

9.0 Very Fine/Near Mint

8.5 Very Fine +

8.0 Very Fine

7.5 Very Fine -

7.0 Fine/Very Fine

6.5 Fine +

6.0 Fine

5.5 Fine -

5.0 Very Good/Fine

4.5 Very Good +

4.0 Very Good

3.5 Very Good -

3.0 Good/Very Good

2.5 Good +

2.0 Good

1.5 Fair/Good

1.0 Fair

.5 Poor

You forgot 1.8 Good-

They use the .5 grading scale up to 8.5, then switch to .2 scale up to 9.8, and recently added 9.9 before finally ending at the perfect 10! Why not just adhere to the .5 scale?

'Cause they're greedy pricks. The 10 point grading scale is inherently biased because the numerical grades were shoehorned in to fit the alpha grades (hence the 1.8). And people who know how to grade low grade books know that there is a Fair+ and a Fair-, but why would CGC care about those crappy grades? No need to try to fit those in. Of course, the split grades were also created in the late 90s by greedy dealers, so I don't even acknowledge them. There is no grade between a VF+ and a NM-, and people used to say "you can use the +/- system or the split grade system, but you can't use both together". This is how the scale should be in a logical/non-greedy world:

10.0 Mint

9.5 NM+

9.0 NM

8.5 NM-

8.0 VF+

7.5 VF

7.0 VF-

6.5 FN+

6.0 FN

5.5 FN-

5.0 VG+

4.5 VG

4.0 VG-

3.5 GD+

3.0 GD

2.5 GD-

2.0 FR+

1.5 FR

1.0 FR-

0.5 PR

[supa_lame]

Do I need a Mint- in there?

Hurm.

[allgoodcomics]

Dang! I remember a few years ago when I suggested that very good books should be 5.0, the board jumped down my throat. My reasoning was that if very good is a comic book with average wear then it should be listed in the middle of the scale with lesser graded books going lower and better books going higher. I am glad after all this time there is someone who some what agrees with me.

What is the difference between a 9.9 graded book or a 10? The term pristine mint was abolished years ago because it was a redundant grade figuring that mint is mint. Now there is gem mint.

[dcebooks]

CGC and PGX grading by the numbers: Both companies now use the same scale and grading standard. Some have claimed PGX simply copied CGC. However, comic grading standards and numbers were set by American Association of Comicbook Collectors (AACC) back in June of 1999. Because of the standard numbering and grading system set by AACC, neither CGC or PGX grades are any better than any other. It wouldn't then make any difference.

They may use the same numerical scale but not the same grading standards. No one outside of CGC fully knows what standards are being used. An example of a known standard would be what you read in the pages of the Overstreet Grading Guide. Those are standards; whether collectors and sellers adhere to them is another issue. PGX, on the other hand, is a mystery unto itself.

[skeletony69]

The PGX apologists are indeed hilarious. For starters, PGX is one or two guys, the founder of which had access to the equipment to slab books and so started his business. That in itself is not a reason to reject them. But when you take into account the enormously well documented instances where that founder has showed up at comic conventions, was photographed buying a lower grade GA or SA book and then later listing that same book newly PGX graded by him to be a FAR better grade for much more money than he paid...that should make you suspicious (or a fool). Add to that the cases  such as the infamous one on youtube involving a guy who submitted his TMNT #1 first printing to PGX and got back a highly graded copy of a THIRD PRINTING TMNT book which he had to crack open the slab to examine. The well documented 'trimming to certain GA/SA Disney comics and such that was performed by the guy who runs PGX, etc. etc.

I mean the proof is there. If the guy were an honest grader then collectors would be flocking to his business to get their books graded at lower prices than CGC charges. But this is not the case.Guy cannot even sell on ebay himself due to his ripping off of buyers.

It is not like there are two sides to this story. The guy who runs PGX is not defending himself because he knows he was caught. Any honest person would say "Hello, I am Mr. Whatshisname and here is what really happened...." with sources and evidence to support his defense.

PGX is a sham outfit. Pure and simple. They are the 'Power bracelets' of comic book grading.

CGC has had errors come up as one would expect from a business who does as many grades as they do but even the very worst mistakes they have made were not in the same class as the PGX grifting and they take pains to correct when such errors come up.

And no, I am not an "investor" in CGC or a "patsy". I am a skeptic who often sides with unpopular sides in debates because truth is more important than anything else.

[323*edelman]

I don't give a rat's ass about this, but I'm trying to get Q off the front page.

[fun_comics9857]

Maybe he climbed into a rat's hole and got stuck. :^O:^O:^O

[kasper5676]

Here is the deal from what I have found. That just a fan boy sight is good but very old. 1 the PGX case is much better in quality than the CGC case. 2 the ratings are all up to 3 people or mores opinion. They both have 3 people that look at the book and make a rough opinion and if all 3 are around the same then they decide what it should be if there not then they bring in more people. As far as getting a book graded neither one of the companies is "better" than the other as far as PGX will give me a 9.6 and CGC would give me a 8.5. It is up to the 3 or more graders I have seen pgx give an 8.5 and then the person opened the book sent it to cgc amd got a 9.3. So there is that part and PGX is cheaper and faster as of now. With all that being said does it decrease your value no but for some reason fan boys of CGC will not buy at the same price a PGX graded because they just7st love CGC that much. I personally would not go CGC unless it was an older rare comic i was going to sell to a serious dealer/collector like say a hulk 181 or spiderman 1 etc...

[bpmcomics]

If you actually believe three people look at your book at PGX I have a bridge to sell you.  Let me guess the three graders are... Daniel Patterson, Dan Patterson, and Danny Patterson?

[atm4ever68]

Some people like Ford other's Chevy. Does that mean either makes a better vehicle? PGX's case holder to me protects the comics better (especially the corners) than CGC. They also have a faster turn around time and won't break the pocket.
I'm not taking anything away from CGC but people "WAKE UP!" Is CGC the only company on this planet that can grade a comic? Who are these graders anyway? I wouldn't be surprised if most of them never collected or was a fan of the hobby.
Grading can be subjective no matter who you are or which company you work for. At least PGX doesn't offer/own a pressing/dry-cleaning service then pass the comics off as unrestord or altered.
Then again its whatever floats your boat. A 9.4 whatever is the same in my book no matter which company slabbed it. But then again some people like Ford and others Chevy...

[atm4ever68]

Oh, I know I mispelled restored. LOL, I couldn't go back and edit my post once it was submitted.

[fun_comics9857]

That's not a very good comparison, since Ford and Chevy make many different models and people get many different choices. You only get one CGC or PGX holder. CGC offers a 5 year warranty on any manufacturing defects on its holders, but does not guarantee the grade or other deterioration of the comic. They also state the grade is only an opinion and probably meaningless. PGX pretty much says the same thing; that it's grades are subjective and only the opinions of its Grading Team. The bottom line; neither CGC nor PGX guarantees the grade - ? ? ?

Additionally, neither place offers a refund policy; even Wallmart has a refund policy.