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Community Member
Posts: 1,245
Registered: ‎07-17-2011

Re: --THE NEW COIN CHAT ROOM--

in reply to gacooke

Hola Gac:  Many thanks for the link info re ancient coins.  Especially regarding mint

marks.  Ancient coins by themselves are interesting items. However, with mint marks

they become really interesting.  Heron has always been interested in mint marks. That

is one reason for the Ching Dynasty 'accumulation' of mint marks.  Howsever, although

an intense study of ancient coins with mint marks is most likely not in the cards for Heron.

That appears to be a 'lifelong' area of study.  Again many thanks.  Heron was not aware

that there were so many 'mint marks' used on ancient coins and it is good to know.

Always adding info into the old memory bank!  Regards,

 

xx

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gacooke
Community Member
Posts: 3,586
Registered: ‎03-10-2008

Re: --THE NEW COIN CHAT ROOM--

in reply to gacooke

I would credit Alexander the Great and his heirs with the first widespread use of mintmarks on similar coins. The tetradrachm with the head of Alexander/Hercules obverse and the seated Zeus holding an eagle reverse is the first widely minted coin that used a mint mark to denote where it was made:

http://www.wildwinds.com/coins/greece/macedonia/kings/alexander_III/t.html

We still cannot interpret many of the marks associated with these coins.  But many we can, such as the rose associated with the mint at Rhodes.



"climate is what we expect weather is what we get"
M. Twain
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gacooke
Community Member
Posts: 3,586
Registered: ‎03-10-2008

Re: --THE NEW COIN CHAT ROOM--

in reply to elheron-grande

Are the Romans the first to use mint marks?

 

You have a remarkable capability for asking what seem to be simple questions which are much more complicated than they seem.

 

Starting in about the third century, the Roman Empire did maintain a large number of mints. which they marked on their coins with a standardized system of identifying the city in exurge on the reverse, often followed with a symbol or two to represent the actual workshop within the city where the coins were made.

 

Here's some links for you to peruse on the subject of the later Roman mints:

http://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=Mint%20Marks

http://www.forumancientcoins.com/dougsmith/officina.html

http://www.bitsofhistory.com/info/mints.html

http://esty.ancients.info/RomeOfficina/Officina.html

 

But many earlier city states included their names on their coins, indicating where they were minted, and numerous greek or hellenistic coins had letters or symbols or monograms that are interpreted as mint or officina marks.

 

These would be an interesting topic for discussion. (Well, interesting to me.  My wife would rather discuss shoes.)

 

 



"climate is what we expect weather is what we get"
M. Twain
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Community Member
Posts: 1,245
Registered: ‎07-17-2011

Re: --THE NEW COIN CHAT ROOM--

in reply to gacooke

Hola Gac- many thanks for the response.  It appears that the Judea Capta palm tree coin

just might be outta range.  However, the pricing information is appreciated.  It IS a

truly nicely designed palm tree!  

 

Another question regarding 'ancient coins':  Are the Romans first to use Mint Marks?  Heron

knew a collector about 16 or 17 years pasado that collected Roman coins by Mint Marks.

However, that guy passed over the great divide before Heron could ask him a bunch of

questions.  Heron believes 'ancient coins' to be extremely interesting although Heron never

collected these items.  A few for examples but not a collection, per se.  The Romans must

have had a large amount of 'mint' locations?  Regards,

 

xx

 

 

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gacooke
Community Member
Posts: 3,586
Registered: ‎03-10-2008

Re: --THE NEW COIN CHAT ROOM--

in reply to elheron-grande

Decent examples (either silver denarius or bronze sestertius) are going to be $1000 coins:

http://www.coinarchives.com/a/results.php?search=judaea+capta+and+palm+tree&s=1&results=100

 

If you hunt around you might find a decent example for $500 or less.  The only ones I've handled were part of a museum collection



"climate is what we expect weather is what we get"
M. Twain
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Community Member
Posts: 1,245
Registered: ‎07-17-2011

Re: --THE NEW COIN CHAT ROOM--

in reply to elheron-grande

A question for collectors of 'ancient' coins. 
Does anyone have a coin known as Sestertius Judea Capta?

 

Heron is curious because this coin depicts a neat palm tree.  Some of the coin folks

collect coins with palm trees onnem.   Heron suspects that this Sestertius Vespasian

71 AD is probably a tad bit expensive for a 'palm tree' collection!   This coin is one of many

depicted in an advertisement. 

 

Info Source: Numismatist November 2007. 

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Community Member
Posts: 1,245
Registered: ‎07-17-2011

Re: --THE NEW COIN CHAT ROOM--

in reply to lindyscards

This board was dedicated to the following:

"Post whatever is on your mind".

"There is no official topic here".

 

 

Friends of the world of numismaticks and economics, and associated interests.  From time to

time there are various comments on varioius 'threads' regarding economics, investing, and

finance.  Here is something that could be of interest to those folks somewhat concerned about

certain other lands taking over the USofA economy:

 

Article Title:  "A Win-Win Possibility for China-USA Trade".

 

Heron will pass along only a small portion of this article;

 

"China's total stock of foreign direct investment in the U.S. grew from virtually zero in 2000

to roughly $17 Billion in 2012, with $4 Billion flowing from China to the U.S. in 2012 alone.

Yet China still accounts for less than 1% of total foreign direct investment in the U.S.

There is clearly tremendous potential for further investment growth with benefits for job

creation and the U.S. economy."

 

Now for another interesting bit of info:  Same article as above;

 

"American firms have established a significant presence in China.  In 2012, the total stock

of U.S. foreign direct investment in China stood at about $70 Billion".

 

INFO SOURCE: Wall Street Journal 1 July 2014 A11.  Authors Charlene Barshefsky

and Long Yongtu.

 

[A few more Billions of Bucks and we will be talkin real money! Heron editorial comment]

 

- - - - - - - - - - - -

 

HOLA LINDY - Yes, Sr. Gaytan's scale of grading paper money was a super good one!

 

xx

 

 

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lindyscards
Community Member
Posts: 186
Registered: ‎03-18-2004

Re: --THE NEW COIN CHAT ROOM--

in reply to elheron-grande

elheron ,

that's a grading scale I understand and I'm Blond .It does work though.

 

jesusrocks ,I think it was written jerky trolls the OP wrote.this was a good one Lori.

 

Roaring

Lindy

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Community Member
Posts: 1,245
Registered: ‎07-17-2011

Re: --THE NEW COIN CHAT ROOM--

in reply to jesusrocks3339

Plus Octember is still 3 months hence!

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jesusrocks3339
Community Member
Posts: 5,451
Registered: ‎04-30-2012

Re: --THE NEW COIN CHAT ROOM--

in reply to indian_jeff

bats, trolls and goblins oh my!

 

maybe I am way off too...but that's ok.

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Community Member
Posts: 4,416
Registered: ‎03-29-2011

Re: --THE NEW COIN CHAT ROOM--

in reply to mcdcoins

Apparently I need more coffee.

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mcdcoins
Community Member
Posts: 1,326
Registered: ‎05-20-2009

Re: --THE NEW COIN CHAT ROOM--

in reply to indian_jeff

indian_jeff wrote:

*smedley* wrote:

hmm... i ran across a seller who supposedly has doing coins since the 70's and doesn't seem to know anything about numismatics... especially terminology...


Do tell.


They're more than a g less than an lb.

 

 

And sometimes bite the heads off bats.

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Community Member
Posts: 1,245
Registered: ‎07-17-2011

Re: --THE NEW COIN CHAT ROOM--

in reply to *smedley*

Your post 8 Julio 2014 1559:  It would seem that a person selling numismaticks items

since the 1970s would, at the least, know most of the hobby terminology.  On the other

hand, some folks never probe into the hobby language.  And Heron is still amused at

the seller of that Bocholt coin that told Heron he had never heard a the place!  Ah well.

Regards,

 

xx

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Community Member
Posts: 1,245
Registered: ‎07-17-2011

Re: --THE NEW COIN CHAT ROOM--

in reply to ted_200

Hola Ted200: Your post 9 Julio 2014 1221:  Yes, that is a good perception for sure.  Sr. Gaytan

liked to call it like it was, so to speak.  Sr. Gaytan made 'grading' fairly easy, for those days.

We learned to grade 'loathsome' notes fairly easily.  Always a fun hobby is this one!  Regards,

 

xx

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ted_200
Community Member
Posts: 11,066
Registered: ‎07-16-2007

Re: --THE NEW COIN CHAT ROOM--

in reply to elheron-grande

VERY GOOD - A condition generally termed VF or better in the U.S.

 

With regard to American Third Party Grading outfits, it appears Sr. Carlos Gaylan may have been 40 years "ahead of his time".  :manwink:

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Community Member
Posts: 4,416
Registered: ‎03-29-2011

Re: --THE NEW COIN CHAT ROOM--

in reply to *smedley*

*smedley* wrote:

hmm... i ran across a seller who supposedly has doing coins since the 70's and doesn't seem to know anything about numismatics... especially terminology...


Do tell.

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Community Member
Posts: 1,245
Registered: ‎07-17-2011

Re: --THE NEW COIN CHAT ROOM--

in reply to ted_200

Holas Amigos and aficionados of World Paper Money!  The stated 'purpose' of this thread is

"Post whatever is on your mind".

"There is no official topic here".

"So let's get the chatting started".

 

Heron is going to post some information regarding 'grading standards' for Paper Money.  A topic

that was discussed on another thread.  Somewhere.  Recently.

 

The following information is to illustrate the difference in various 'standards' for grading world

paper money.  This particular 'standard' was written sometime around 1964. 

 

Another commentario:  These standards were translated from the Spanish, so do not be surprised

at the slightly different presentation.  One example:  The heading of this segment from the catalog

is titled "The Condition".  Most likely in USA English the segment would merely be titled "Condition".

However, be that as it may, some folks here might enjoy this information:

 

From Gaytan's Paper Currency of Mexico, 2nd Edition, Copyright 1973, Sr. Carlos Gaytan, author,

translated to the English by Sr. Gabriel Navarro:

 

THE CONDITION

 

It is quite logical to assume that the condition of a paper bill, a pressboard, or a paste board note

determines its particular price. No one is apt to pay the same price for a magnificent Louis XV

chair without a single scratch as he would for a similar chair with two legs broken, the seat missing,

and its back showing signs of repair.  The same thing is true of paper money.

 

In CRISP condition [H. uppa case as printed in the Gaytan catalog] its value twice, three times, four

times, or perhaps even 10 times as much as a similar specimen which has been repaired, scuffed,

or whose legends are hardly decipherable.  It is not mathematically possible to fix proportionately,

the difference in value by grades, between a CRISP bill and on that is in POOR condition. That

must be left, for the time being, to the good judgement of the beholder.  But I have no doubt that

soon the various price ranges will be established among bill collectors, and that is why it might be

well to attempt to define the various grades of preservation.

 

CRISP - What amounts to uncirculated condition, without a single fold. [One sentence expurgated].

 

VERY GOOD - A condition generally termed VF or better in the U.S.

 

GOOD - This bill would have no more than 1 fold, no stains and its colors would still be bright.

 

AVERAGE - This one may show 3 or 4 folds, some scuff marks, but the date, series and number

are easily distinguishable.  Might even have been repaired once.

 

[Heron's note here:  When Sr. Gaytan refers to 'number' he is referring to what Murrkins call

'serial number'.  The 'series' to which Sr. Gaytan refers is NOT a serial number.  It can be a letter,

or a number or combination thereof].

 

PRECARIOUS - Poor in the U.S.A.  This bill has been patched, folded, scuffed, and stained.

The date, serie, and number are still visible.

 

[Heron note here:  Many Mexican notes, particularly notes issued during the 1910 Revolution have

been 'patched' with brown, tan, or blue paper gummed 'tape'.  Or just with a piece of paper cut

to size and glued upon the 'bill'.  By the way, the use of 'bill' here is most likely a transliteration

from the Spanish Billete which means bill, banknote, treasury bill [2]. Could be? Quizas?]

 

BAD - About awful.  In this category we find bills, pasteboard issues and other notes which are

really loathsome to behold.  Some might show a piece missing, others their legends indiscernable.

None are considered worthy of fitting decently into any one's collection. Since there is nothing

better for the moment, they are accepted on a temporary basis in order to fill the gap until a

better specimen can be found.

 

[Heron: The dissertation of 'BAD' is one of the best Heron has ever seen regarding the lowest of

the low in paper money!  Sr. Gaytan told it like it was!]

 

COMMENT:  Some 50 years, mas o menos, after this 'standard' was writ by Sr. Gaytan, we now

live in a world of more standardization of 'standards'.  Even with the 'mathematical' grading now

included.  This type of standard devised by Sr. Gaytan was the beginning of Heron's education in

grading of paper money [1970].  Sr. Gaytan was a pioneer in writing paper money grading standards.

It is fun to re-visit his writings.  Many of the earlier catalog compilers had a good sense of humor.

This is a fun hobby and those early writers made it 'fun'.  How could we 'beat' 'loathsome to behold'?

 

Now, please comment on this paper money grading standard and we can have some good fun

discussion, perhaps?  Regards,

 

xx

 

 

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Community Member
Posts: 3,188
Registered: ‎10-14-2008

Re: --THE NEW COIN CHAT ROOM--

in reply to indian_jeff

hmm... i ran across a seller who supposedly has doing coins since the 70's and doesn't seem to know anything about numismatics... especially terminology...

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Community Member
Posts: 4,416
Registered: ‎03-29-2011

Re: --THE NEW COIN CHAT ROOM--

in reply to beachgirlbaby01

You're very welcome. Keep being you.

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beachgirlbaby01
Community Member
Posts: 5,949
Registered: ‎02-20-2010

Re: --THE NEW COIN CHAT ROOM--

in reply to indian_jeff

Amy is a warm and wonderful human being, as far as I can tell.

 

She definitly is. I have no doubt in my mind:smileyhappy: Thanks.



The more you explain it, the more I don't understand it.


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