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tdziemianowicz · ‎12-14-2014

I thought I would make this topic a bit more visible .... This previous thread morphed into a thread on finding images of Christian saints on coins:

http://community.ebay.com/t5/Coins-Paper-Money/Question-of-Variety-Authenticity-for-Medieval-Italian...

For those with an interest in the designs of medieval and Renaissance era European coins, you may enjoy browsing through it.

In the spirit of some other threads, there is also a running list, which (after some rearrangement) looks like this, and the encouragement of readers to add to it!:

1. Mary as Madonna - Hungary Ducats starting 16th c., Bavaria thalers 1770s, Nuremburg notgeld

Annunciation - Naples Charles II salute d'argento 15th c.

Mary is also shown "crowning" byzantine soverigns on some gold coins of the 11-12thc.

2. Michael the Archangel - Brabant esterlin 1267-94, England Edward IV gold angel, Vatican City 50 c. 1929-41, Zeitz notgeld

3. John the Baptist - Gold florins of Florence, France (Orange, Avignon), northern Germany 13-15th c., Testons of Florence.

4. Mary Magdalen - Papal States - Ancona teston 1582

Apostles/Evangelists:

5. St. Peter - Many papal states/Vatican City issues; Brabant gros, 14th c.

6. St. Andrew - Brunswick-Lunenburg thalers and fractions of 16th-17th c., Brabant florin Charles the Bold

7. Ss. James & John - Pesar mezzo paolo 1538-74

8. St. Thomas - Portuguese India Joao III (1521-57) gold

9. St. Mark - Venice grosso of 13-15th c. (and later Venice coins)

10. St. Matthew - Papal States piastre 1676

11. St. Paul - Munster 3 and 6 pfennig 1750s to 1770s; Papal States many issues including grosso of Benedict XIV (1740s) and Vatican City 20 centesimo of 1930s

Early Martyrs:

12. St. Stephen - Metz gros of 14-15thc and thalers of 17th, Halberstadt bracteates of 12-13th c. and thalers of 16-17th c.

13. St. George - (Antioch 1112-19; England/Gr Britain Noble Henry VIII, Crown, Sovereign 1817-; Bank of Canada token 1852, Ferrara grossone Ercole I 1471-1505; Mansfeld-Eisleben 1/3 Thaler 1671; Friedberg Thaler 1766

14. St. Alban - trade ducat, priory of St. Albans (Mains) 1712-1786

15. St. Antoninus - Borgotaro teston 1520s, Parma teston of 1622-46

16. St. Vitalis - Parma teston 1646-94

17. St. Ursus - Solothurn duplone 1797

18. St. Benigno - Abbey of Montanaro teston 1529-43

Others (many are medieval bishops who spread the faith, founded monateries, abbeys, founded religious orders ..)

19. St. Nicholas - Lorraine (Florin, 1608-24)

20. St. Killian - Wurzburg (Thaler 1685)

21. St. Patrick - Dublin tokens 1660s

22. St. Demetrius - Byzantine nomisma, 1080s

23. St. Theodore - Byzantine trachy, 1143-80

24. St. Martin - Lucca Scudo 1733, Bingen and Aschaffenburg notgeld

25. St. Ambrose - Milan Grosso 1395-1402

26. St. Vitus - Corvey 24 Mariengroschen 1753

27. St. Willibald - Eichstatt 5 Kreuzer 1750s

28. St. Romuald - Papl States

29. St. Stephan - Hungary 5 Pengo 1938

30. Ss Cyril & Methodius - Bulgaria 5 Leva, Slovakia 20 korun 1941

31. St. Maximinus - Trier notgeld issues 1920

32. St. Moritz - Magdeburg 1/24 Thaler 1607

33. St. Liborius - Paderborn Thaler 1620, 1786

34. St. Marinus - St. Marino 20 lire 1931-

35. St. Ludger - Werden & Helmstedt Thaler 1745; Werden notgeld

36. St. Hildegard - Kempten 1 & 2 kreuzer 1620s

37. St. Pope John XXIII - Cook Is. 2014

38. St. Pope John Paul II - Benin, Burkina Faso, Cameroon, Canada, Poland 2014

39. St. Gertrude - Wattenscheid notgeld

40. St. Gotthard - Gotha notgeld

41. St. Pancras - Iserlohn notgeld

42. St. Patroclus - Soest notgeld

gacooke · ‎01-30-2015

@tdziemianowicz wrote:
@toms-world wrote:
New Jersey Farthing depicting St Patrick currently up for bids in a February 1st Heritage sale.....

Tom
Neat! I think gacooke had previously contributed an Irish token with St. Pat, so we do have him on the list way back at #21. If/when I next update the earieir part of the list, I will add the NJ coin.

Unfortunately, mine is a pewter copy, so this one should take precedence.

"climate is what we expect weather is what we get"
M. Twain

.

elheron-grande · ‎01-31-2015

Hola TDZ - your post of 30 Jan 2015 - 1404: Nice find on that Luzern depicting Saint.

Yes, some of the Copper or Billon or small Silver coins are reasonably priced.

You could be embarking on a life long journey

when developing an interest in the HRE coins with Saints depicted! However, it is

a fun hobby. And of course you are a coin collector. Collect what you want and enjoy!

Each of us can design our 'collections' in the manner we wanna! That is part of the fun!

Keep hunting and acquiring! Heron recently counted his HRE German States etc items

and the count is now 178+. Depends on whether we count the Hungarian rebellion of

1709 and the coins issued during that time period. Technically they are NOT HRE coins,

not having been authorized by the emperor. Fun stuff for a life time! Heron enjoys the

coin acquisitions reported by fellow collectors. Regardvs,

xx

tdziemianowicz · ‎01-31-2015

@elheron-grande wrote:

Hola TDZ - your post of 30 Jan 2015 - 1404: Nice find on that Luzern depicting Saint.
Yes, some of the Copper or Billon or small Silver coins are reasonably priced.
You could be embarking on a life long journey
when developing an interest in the HRE coins with Saints depicted! However, it is
a fun hobby. And of course you are a coin collector. Collect what you want and enjoy!
Each of us can design our 'collections' in the manner we wanna! That is part of the fun!
Keep hunting and acquiring! Heron recently counted his HRE German States etc items
and the count is now 178+. Depends on whether we count the Hungarian rebellion of
1709 and the coins issued during that time period. Technically they are NOT HRE coins,
not having been authorized by the emperor. Fun stuff for a life time! Heron enjoys the
coin acquisitions reported by fellow collectors. Regardvs,

xx

Though I am younger than elheron, I am not sure there are enough years left to start an HRE collection

Though, as we have seen, the majority of the saints come from HRE principalities and Italian states, so I will wind up with a few by "accident."

elheron-grande · ‎02-06-2015

Hola TDZ - another possible for the 'list'.

1289 - 1311

Venice - Silver Grosso.

Doge Pietro Gradenigo.

Depicting Cristo & San Marco.

This coin was found on eBay whilst el Heron was searching for Kanton coins.

Heron cannot recall, however, this could be the 1st coin Heron has seen with

depiction of Cristo. Perhaps? Quien Sabe? Who knows?

Searching is fun! Acquiring is also fun! A great hobby for a lifetime of fun!

Regardvs,

xx

tdziemianowicz · ‎02-11-2015

@elheron-grande wrote:

Hola TDZ - another possible for the 'list'.

1289 - 1311

Venice - Silver Grosso.

Doge Pietro Gradenigo.

Depicting Cristo & San Marco.

This coin was found on eBay whilst el Heron was searching for Kanton coins.
Heron cannot recall, however, this could be the 1st coin Heron has seen with
depiction of Cristo. Perhaps? Quien Sabe? Who knows?

Searching is fun! Acquiring is also fun! A great hobby for a lifetime of fun!
Regardvs,

xx

Sorry I did not see this sooner.

I think that in an earlier part of the thread, we identified the appearance of St. Mark on coins of Venice (one of gacooke's many contributions I think) .

As for Christ, we had not yet pursued this angle. I think that agathetyche could give some history of the early depiction of Christ. My limited observations are that there is a version called "Christ Pantokrator" which shows up first on Byzantine coins (I am not sure which century it begins .. perhaps the 9th or 10th?) and I think the Venetian images continue this tradition. I am aware of some interesting 16th century Italian coins which depict Christ emerging from the sepulchre. Certainly appropriate to the season though not quite yet!

tdziemianowicz · ‎02-11-2015

Pope Clement XI may be the single sovereign with the most interesting contributions in this arena ... not so surprising it would be a pope, I guess, coining with many religious motifs..

Here is a coin with his namesake, St. Clement, an early pope (perhaps even next in line after Peter though ther is some confusion on that). The palm indicates he was a martyr, and the anchor his purported means of martyrdom: drowned by being tied to an anchor and dropped in the sea. Currently up for auction elsewhere.

elheron-grande · ‎02-12-2015

Hola TDZ: your post of 11 Febrero 2015 1433: This 'saints' topic is a real eye-opener

for Heron. Never thought about this topic previously. Heron was always thinking Copper

coins of the HRE and other issuing authorities. HRE primarily for the different issuing

authorities and the coats of arms depicted.

The saints topic certainly does show just how many 'dimensions' can be found in coin

collecting. It is educational for sure. Viewing the various coin pics on this 'topic' has been

extremely enjoyable to el Heron. So much to learn and so little time!

Yes, some of our fellow coin folks have shown neat 'pics' of various saints coins. Heron

thanks all of the folks that have contributed to this 'topic'. Hopefully we can live long and

learn more! Regardus,

xx

tdziemianowicz · ‎02-18-2015

@agathetyche wrote:
The decapitated John the Baptist appears on Order of Malta silver 4 Tari of the 16th century. You often see these on dealers' lists with the head facing left, when actually it is meant to be lying on a platter.
And I've been wondering about the Evangelists. We have Matthew, Mark and John, but so far I can't find anything with Luke. Why is he neglected?

I finally found something wtih Luke, though it is a medal, not coin. AND, he is not depicted as an Evangelist (book in hand) but as an artist. There is a legend of his having painted the madonna and child from life (the subject of several renaissance paintings).

It's another nice one from the reign of Clement XI (who seems to have been quite the lover of ornate headwear ).

tdziemianowicz · ‎02-18-2015

@tdziemianowicz wrote:
@elheron-grande wrote:

Hola TDZ - another possible for the 'list'.

1289 - 1311

Venice - Silver Grosso.

Doge Pietro Gradenigo.

Depicting Cristo & San Marco.

This coin was found on eBay whilst el Heron was searching for Kanton coins.
Heron cannot recall, however, this could be the 1st coin Heron has seen with
depiction of Cristo. Perhaps? Quien Sabe? Who knows?

Searching is fun! Acquiring is also fun! A great hobby for a lifetime of fun!
Regardvs,

xx
As for Christ, we had not yet pursued this angle. I think that agathetyche could give some history of the early depiction of Christ. My limited observations are that there is a version called "Christ Pantokrator" which shows up first on Byzantine coins (I am not sure which century it begins .. perhaps the 9th or 10th?) and I think the Venetian images continue this tradition. I am aware of some interesting 16th century Italian coins which depict Christ emerging from the sepulchre. Certainly appropriate to the season though not quite yet!

Here is the earliest depiction of Christ I could find on a coin ... Byzantine emperor Justinian II (late 600s). Maybe there is something earlier?

elheron-grande · ‎02-20-2015

Hola TDZ: Your post 18 Febrero 2015 1929: Nice find! A coin from the 600s...! Appears

to be very nice art work. One more 'thing' to put in the memory bank! The educational

dimensions of 'world coins' are fantastico. Keep up the good work! Regards,

xx

elheron-grande · ‎04-12-2015

Hola TDZ - whilst Heron was searching for an upgrade for his copper coin of Lucca

he found this listed in eBay auctions: Lucca Cristo Quattrino 1557 copper. Perhaps

another different Cristo image? Regards,

xx

tdziemianowicz · ‎04-13-2015

@elheron-grande wrote:

Hola TDZ - whilst Heron was searching for an upgrade for his copper coin of Lucca
he found this listed in eBay auctions: Lucca Cristo Quattrino 1557 copper. Perhaps
another different Cristo image? Regards,

xx

I will go take a look.

I am familiar with these two saintly images on Lucca coins:

- St. Martin of Tours, to whom the cathedral is dedicated (though he was French!). He is pictured on silver scudi of the 18th century (I think GACooke may have posted one earlier in the thread).

- the "volto santo" which is a crucifix brought to Lucca perhaps as early as the 10th or 11th century (possibly from Byzantium), and displayed in said cathedral, which depicts the crucified Christ in a full length robe, and wearing a crown. The face with crown is depicted on gold scudi of Lucca of the 16th and 17th centuries.

Maybe it's this image which is on the quattrino?

elheron-grande · ‎04-13-2015

Hola TDZ: Heron has searched through the coins depicted on this topic and has not

seen any similar 'image' as on the Lucca 1557 copper coin as shown in current 'listing'.

Might have 'missed' something along the way. It happens, ha! Regardvs,

xx

tdziemianowicz · ‎04-13-2015

@elheron-grande wrote:

Hola TDZ: Heron has searched through the coins depicted on this topic and has not
seen any similar 'image' as on the Lucca 1557 copper coin as shown in current 'listing'.
Might have 'missed' something along the way. It happens, ha! Regardvs,

xx

Thanks! I took a look, and indeed, this is the "volto sancto" (holy face) depicted on a number of coins of Lucca from this period. These coins have the latin inscription "V V L T V S S A N C T V S". You can see V V L T V S running from about 12 to 4 on the obverse of this quattrino.

This type could be an interesting addition to the saints collection, but not at this price!

As a side note, it is unfortunate I did not have the passion for these coins when I spent a day in Lucca in August, 2013. Perhaps while la signora was looking at handbags, I could have looked for a nomismatista.

gacooke · ‎04-13-2015

SANCTUS VULTUS is indeed latin for "holy face" but apparantly some numismatists (including Krause) think there is a Saint Vultus. Here's the real origin of the image:

http://www.stgemma.com/gallery/eng_volto_sancto.html

Do we have a patron saint for Numismatists? Maybe Saint Vultus could use the job.

"climate is what we expect weather is what we get"
M. Twain

.