12-14-2014 06:26 AM
I thought I would make this topic a bit more visible .... This previous thread morphed into a thread on finding images of Christian saints on coins:
For those with an interest in the designs of medieval and Renaissance era European coins, you may enjoy browsing through it.
In the spirit of some other threads, there is also a running list, which (after some rearrangement) looks like this, and the encouragement of readers to add to it!:
1. Mary as Madonna - Hungary Ducats starting 16th c., Bavaria thalers 1770s, Nuremburg notgeld
Annunciation - Naples Charles II salute d'argento 15th c.
Mary is also shown "crowning" byzantine soverigns on some gold coins of the 11-12thc.
2. Michael the Archangel - Brabant esterlin 1267-94, England Edward IV gold angel, Vatican City 50 c. 1929-41, Zeitz notgeld
3. John the Baptist - Gold florins of Florence, France (Orange, Avignon), northern Germany 13-15th c., Testons of Florence.
4. Mary Magdalen - Papal States - Ancona teston 1582
Apostles/Evangelists:
5. St. Peter - Many papal states/Vatican City issues; Brabant gros, 14th c.
6. St. Andrew - Brunswick-Lunenburg thalers and fractions of 16th-17th c., Brabant florin Charles the Bold
7. Ss. James & John - Pesar mezzo paolo 1538-74
8. St. Thomas - Portuguese India Joao III (1521-57) gold
9. St. Mark - Venice grosso of 13-15th c. (and later Venice coins)
10. St. Matthew - Papal States piastre 1676
11. St. Paul - Munster 3 and 6 pfennig 1750s to 1770s; Papal States many issues including grosso of Benedict XIV (1740s) and Vatican City 20 centesimo of 1930s
Early Martyrs:
12. St. Stephen - Metz gros of 14-15thc and thalers of 17th, Halberstadt bracteates of 12-13th c. and thalers of 16-17th c.
13. St. George - (Antioch 1112-19; England/Gr Britain Noble Henry VIII, Crown, Sovereign 1817-; Bank of Canada token 1852, Ferrara grossone Ercole I 1471-1505; Mansfeld-Eisleben 1/3 Thaler 1671; Friedberg Thaler 1766
14. St. Alban - trade ducat, priory of St. Albans (Mains) 1712-1786
15. St. Antoninus - Borgotaro teston 1520s, Parma teston of 1622-46
16. St. Vitalis - Parma teston 1646-94
17. St. Ursus - Solothurn duplone 1797
18. St. Benigno - Abbey of Montanaro teston 1529-43
Others (many are medieval bishops who spread the faith, founded monateries, abbeys, founded religious orders ..)
19. St. Nicholas - Lorraine (Florin, 1608-24)
20. St. Killian - Wurzburg (Thaler 1685)
21. St. Patrick - Dublin tokens 1660s
22. St. Demetrius - Byzantine nomisma, 1080s
23. St. Theodore - Byzantine trachy, 1143-80
24. St. Martin - Lucca Scudo 1733, Bingen and Aschaffenburg notgeld
25. St. Ambrose - Milan Grosso 1395-1402
26. St. Vitus - Corvey 24 Mariengroschen 1753
27. St. Willibald - Eichstatt 5 Kreuzer 1750s
28. St. Romuald - Papl States
29. St. Stephan - Hungary 5 Pengo 1938
30. Ss Cyril & Methodius - Bulgaria 5 Leva, Slovakia 20 korun 1941
31. St. Maximinus - Trier notgeld issues 1920
32. St. Moritz - Magdeburg 1/24 Thaler 1607
33. St. Liborius - Paderborn Thaler 1620, 1786
34. St. Marinus - St. Marino 20 lire 1931-
35. St. Ludger - Werden & Helmstedt Thaler 1745; Werden notgeld
36. St. Hildegard - Kempten 1 & 2 kreuzer 1620s
37. St. Pope John XXIII - Cook Is. 2014
38. St. Pope John Paul II - Benin, Burkina Faso, Cameroon, Canada, Poland 2014
39. St. Gertrude - Wattenscheid notgeld
40. St. Gotthard - Gotha notgeld
41. St. Pancras - Iserlohn notgeld
42. St. Patroclus - Soest notgeld
Solved! Go to Best Answer
12-14-2014 08:26 AM
#13 St. George -- he's on a bunch of British coins as well as sovereigns and half-sovereigns of Canada, India, South Africa and Australia...
12-14-2014 05:33 PM
#3 John the Baptist is depicted on my Baptism Talers minted in the 1600s in the Harz Mountain region of Germany. pretty sure I pictured them on the thread referenced in the OPs post. He is also depicted on a small gold Klippe from Hamburg that is part of my collection. The severed head of John the Baptist also appears on the 1964 Order of Malta proof 1 Scudo, I no longer have that coin but do have a photo if anyone is interested.
Tom
12-20-2014 11:49 AM
@tdziemianowicz wrote:
@toms-world wrote:#3 John the Baptist is depicted on my Baptism Talers minted in the 1600s in the Harz Mountain region of Germany. pretty sure I pictured them on the thread referenced in the OPs post. He is also depicted on a small gold Klippe from Hamburg that is part of my collection. The severed head of John the Baptist also appears on the 1964 Order of Malta proof 1 Scudo, I no longer have that coin but do have a photo if anyone is interested.
Tom
Thanks! I'll go look at some of those. It sounds like there must have been a principality in the Harz of which he was patron saint? He's the patron saint of Florence, which is why he shows up not only on the medieval florin (which was then copied elsewhere), but also on the reverse of many testons through the whole Medici era.
What I was told, or had read, many moons ago, was that the Marriage Thalers and Baptismal Thalers were stores of "community" wealth. They were often made in multiple thaler weights and were distributed to families in the county, principality, city, etc at t weddings or births. When the count, prince, mayor etc. needed the silver fore defense or national expense, they would call them in and buy or borrow them back.
I don't know if that story is true. I have no reference to cite.
Hamburg 1.5 Thaler 1620:
12-14-2014 08:26 AM
#13 St. George -- he's on a bunch of British coins as well as sovereigns and half-sovereigns of Canada, India, South Africa and Australia...
12-14-2014 05:33 PM
#3 John the Baptist is depicted on my Baptism Talers minted in the 1600s in the Harz Mountain region of Germany. pretty sure I pictured them on the thread referenced in the OPs post. He is also depicted on a small gold Klippe from Hamburg that is part of my collection. The severed head of John the Baptist also appears on the 1964 Order of Malta proof 1 Scudo, I no longer have that coin but do have a photo if anyone is interested.
Tom
12-20-2014 06:26 AM
@*smedley* wrote:#13 St. George -- he's on a bunch of British coins as well as sovereigns and half-sovereigns of Canada, India, South Africa and Australia...
Thanks! Those are good adds. gacooke got us started with St George images ... he's also got one on an old Russian copper. agathetyche also chimed in with some early byzantine examples, and a reference to the earliest English representation. It seems you can almost trace the spread of the medieval cult of St. George through coinage (from byzantium northward to slavic nations and westward to Italy and England ...)..
12-20-2014 06:31 AM
@toms-world wrote:#3 John the Baptist is depicted on my Baptism Talers minted in the 1600s in the Harz Mountain region of Germany. pretty sure I pictured them on the thread referenced in the OPs post. He is also depicted on a small gold Klippe from Hamburg that is part of my collection. The severed head of John the Baptist also appears on the 1964 Order of Malta proof 1 Scudo, I no longer have that coin but do have a photo if anyone is interested.
Tom
Thanks! I'll go look at some of those. It sounds like there must have been a principality in the Harz of which he was patron saint? He's the patron saint of Florence, which is why he shows up not only on the medieval florin (which was then copied elsewhere), but also on the reverse of many testons through the whole Medici era.
12-20-2014 07:01 AM
i betcha when Mother Teresa is canonized there's gonna be a slew of new coins with her likeness...
12-20-2014 11:49 AM
@tdziemianowicz wrote:
@toms-world wrote:#3 John the Baptist is depicted on my Baptism Talers minted in the 1600s in the Harz Mountain region of Germany. pretty sure I pictured them on the thread referenced in the OPs post. He is also depicted on a small gold Klippe from Hamburg that is part of my collection. The severed head of John the Baptist also appears on the 1964 Order of Malta proof 1 Scudo, I no longer have that coin but do have a photo if anyone is interested.
Tom
Thanks! I'll go look at some of those. It sounds like there must have been a principality in the Harz of which he was patron saint? He's the patron saint of Florence, which is why he shows up not only on the medieval florin (which was then copied elsewhere), but also on the reverse of many testons through the whole Medici era.
What I was told, or had read, many moons ago, was that the Marriage Thalers and Baptismal Thalers were stores of "community" wealth. They were often made in multiple thaler weights and were distributed to families in the county, principality, city, etc at t weddings or births. When the count, prince, mayor etc. needed the silver fore defense or national expense, they would call them in and buy or borrow them back.
I don't know if that story is true. I have no reference to cite.
Hamburg 1.5 Thaler 1620:
12-20-2014 12:54 PM
Fantastic. The first miracle.
Thanks!
I've found another apostle. St. Phillip on a 1499 Brabant florin from the reign of Philippe le Beau of Burgundy (1494-1506). For a small country, Brabant sure has its share of contributions in this category.
12-20-2014 01:47 PM
12-21-2014 07:17 AM
The decapitated John the Baptist appears on Order of Malta silver 4 Tari of the 16th century. You often see these on dealers' lists with the head facing left, when actually it is meant to be lying on a platter.
And I've been wondering about the Evangelists. We have Matthew, Mark and John, but so far I can't find anything with Luke. Why is he neglected?
12-21-2014 11:11 AM
@agathetyche wrote:The decapitated John the Baptist appears on Order of Malta silver 4 Tari of the 16th century. You often see these on dealers' lists with the head facing left, when actually it is meant to be lying on a platter.
And I've been wondering about the Evangelists. We have Matthew, Mark and John, but so far I can't find anything with Luke. Why is he neglected?
Yes, I've also struck out on Luke, and can;t figure out exactly why either.
I've also started to do some reading on how early saints started becoming associated with specific places from a "patron" point of view. Martyrdom was one link (I don't think Luke was). Also, being one of the original 12 conferred some desirability (he also was not in that group either). In the Dark Ages to early medieval period, we see many bishops becoming saints, which rather easily cements the saint-place connection.
So, meanwhile, here is another early martyr, St. Lawrence, who, according to legend, was tortured with a gridiron (nothing to do with football). Goldgulden of Nuremberg, 1521.
12-21-2014 01:08 PM
I can't find a coin with the image of Luke either but here is a passage from his Gospel with a reference to coins.
Luke 15:8-10New International Version (NIV)
The Parable of the Lost Coin
8 “Or suppose a woman has ten silver coins[a] and loses one. Doesn’t she light a lamp, sweep the house and search carefully until she finds it? 9 And when she finds it, she calls her friends and neighbors together and says, ‘Rejoice with me; I have found my lost coin.’ 10 In the same way, I tell you, there is rejoicing in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”
Tom
12-21-2014 03:07 PM - edited 12-21-2014 03:09 PM
A bit cumbersome to update, but here we go, incluing contributions from earlier in this thread, and an expansion of St. Peter who I've found as early as 1100, and turns out to have been ubiquitous on northern European ducats. Closing in on 50, truly a heavenly host (just in time):
1. Mary as Madonna - Hungary Ducats starting 16th c., Bavaria thalers 1770s, Nuremburg notgeld
Annunciation - Naples Charles II salute d'argento 15th c.
Wedding at Cana - Hamburg 1.5 Thaler 1620
Mary is also shown "crowning" byzantine sovereigns on some gold coins of the 11-12thc.
2. Michael the Archangel - Brabant esterlin 1267-94, England Edward IV gold angel, Vatican City 50 c. 1929-41, Zeitz notgeld
3. John the Baptist - Gold florins of Florence, France (Orange, Avignon), northern Germany 13-15th c., Testons of Florence, Order of Malta 4 Tari 16th c., Baptism thalers 17th c. Harz region, Malta 1964 scudo.
4. Mary Magdalen - Papal States Ancona teston 1582
Apostles/Evangelists:
5. St. Peter - Antioch follis Tancred 1101-12, Ducats starting late 14th c. of Trier, Brabant, Pfalz/Bachrach, Koln/Bonn and papal states. Papl States testons, piastres starting 16th c. and modern Vatican issues
6. St. Andrew - Brunswick-Lunenburg thalers and fractions of 16th-17th c., Brabant florin Charles the Bold
7/8. Ss. James & John - Pesaro mezzo paolo 1538-74
9. St. Thomas - Portuguese India Joao III (1521-57) gold
10. St. Mark - Venice grosso of 13-15th c. (and later Venice coins)
11. St. Matthew - Papal States piastre 1676
12. St. Phillip - Ducat of Brabant, Philippe le Beau late 15th c.
13. St. Paul - Munster 3 and 6 pfennig 1750s to 1770s; Papal States many issues dating back to at least 16th c. including grosso of Benedict XIV (1740s) and Vatican City 20 centesimo of 1930s
Early Martyrs:
14. St. Stephen - Metz gros of 14-15thc and thalers of 17th, Halberstadt bracteates of 12-13th c. and thalers of 16-17th c.
15. St. George - Antioch 1112-19; England/Gr Britain Noble Henry VIII, Crown, Sovereign 1817- for Britain, India, etc.; Bank of Canada token 1852, Ferrara grossone Ercole I 1471-1505; Mansfeld-Eisleben 1/3 Thaler 1671; Friedberg Thaler 1766
16. St. Alban - trade ducat, priory of St. Albans (Mainz) 1712-1786
17. St. Antoninus - Borgotaro teston 1520s, Parma teston of 1622-46
18. St. Lawrence - Nuremburg ducats starting early 16th c.
19. St. Vitalis - Parma teston 1646-94
20. St. Ursus - Solothurn duplone 1797
21. St. Benigno - Abbey of Montanaro teston 1529-43
Others (many are medieval bishops who spread the faith, founded monateries, abbeys, founded religious orders ..)
22. St. Nicholas - Lorraine (Florin, 1608-24)
23. St. Killian - Wurzburg (Thaler 1685)
24. St. Patrick - Dublin tokens 1660s
25. St. Demetrius - Byzantine nomisma, 1080s
26. St. Theodore - Byzantine trachy, 1143-80
27. St. Martin - Lucca Scudo 1733, Bingen and Aschaffenburg notgeld
28. St. Ambrose - Milan Grosso 1395-1402
29. St. Vitus - Corvey 24 Mariengroschen 1753
30. St. Willibald - Eichstatt 5 Kreuzer 1750s
31. St. Romuald - Papl States
32. St. Stephan - Hungary 5 Pengo 1938
33. Ss Cyril & Methodius - Bulgaria 5 Leva, Slovakia 20 korun 1941
34. St. Maximinus - Trier notgeld issues 1920
35. St. Moritz - Magdeburg 1/24 Thaler 1607
36. St. Liborius - Paderborn Thaler 1620, 1786
37. St. Marinus - St. Marino 20 lire 1931-
38. St. Ludger - Werden & Helmstedt Thaler 1745; Werden notgeld
39. St. Hildegard - Kempten 1 & 2 kreuzer 1620s
40. St. Pope John XXIII - Cook Is. 2014
41. St. Pope John Paul II - Benin, Burkina Faso, Cameroon, Canada, Poland 2014
42. St. Gertrude - Wattenscheid notgeld
43. St. Gotthard - Gotha notgeld
44. St. Pancras - Iserlohn notgeld
45. St. Patroclus - Soest notgeld
12-24-2014 10:32 AM
Hola TDZ: Your post of 21 Dec 2014 1111: A comment on the neat Nvrenbergensis 1521
coin depicted. That eagle design witht he "N" on eagle's chest is a very nice engraving
for a coin of 1521. Heron is aware that similar eagle designs were used on many different HRE
coin issues, however, that 1521 design is a super nice one, opinion. Regards,
xx
12-24-2014 11:15 AM
@elheron-grande wrote:
Hola TDZ: Your post of 21 Dec 2014 1111: A comment on the neat Nvrenbergensis 1521
coin depicted. That eagle design witht he "N" on eagle's chest is a very nice engraving
for a coin of 1521. Heron is aware that similar eagle designs were used on many different HRE
coin issues, however, that 1521 design is a super nice one, opinion. Regards,
xx
Agree it's a nice design. I sure wish I could add many of the coins I have posted her to my saints "accumulation" that has begun. But this one went for 1250 euro at a recent auction ($1800 after typical commission), so I don't think I will have a St. Lawrence any time soon!
I was lucky and landed a very nice St. Andrew (Brunswick-Lunenberg etc 1/3 Thaler) on an Ebay auction (no commission! Hooray), and a St. Hildegard from a European auction.
And while pursuing these, I missed out on one of the three remaining birthyear coins this week .