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New PayPal policy - November

Amendments to the PayPal User Agreement

Effective Date: November 18, 2014

We encourage you to carefully review this Policy Update to familiarize yourself with all of the changes that are being made to the PayPal User Agreement. These updates will be posted at least 30 days prior to their effective date. These changes will not apply retroactively and will become effective November 18, 2014. If you use PayPal after the date these changes become effective, we will take that usage as your consent to the changed terms.  

  1. Dispute Filing Window

    We’re increasing the time for buyers to file a merchandise dispute (Item Not Received and Significantly Not as Described) from 45 days to 180 days.   All references in the User Agreement to “Opening a Dispute within 45 days” have been updated to reflect “Opening a Dispute within 180 days.” The Sections these changes appear include the Introduction, 3.15, 13.2 and 13.5.

  1. 10.1(b)

    PayPal’s Seller Protection and Buyer Protection policies may vary from country to country. If you as a seller, sell an item to a buyer from another country, you will be subject to the Buyer and Seller Protection policies applicable to your buyer’s country and required to reimburse PayPal for any payment or refund to your buyer made pursuant to that other country’s policy. We are revising section 11.1 to reflect this.

    Liability for Claims under PayPal Purchase Protection. If you are a Seller and PayPal makes a final decision that you lose a Claim filed directly with PayPal, you will be required to reimburse PayPal for your liability. Where you receive payment from a PayPal Account holder in another country and we determine under the PayPal Buyer Protection Policy of that country that the funds received should be returned or reversed, you will be subject to that country’s PayPal Buyer Protection Policy and required to reimburse PayPal for your liability (before receiving payment from a PayPal Account holder in another country, you should review the relevant PayPal Buyer Protection Policies accessible via the “Legal” or “Legal Agreements” footer on most PayPal site pages).Your liability will include the full purchase price of the item plus the original shipping cost (and in some cases you may not receive the item back). You will not receive a refund of your PayPal fees. PayPal Seller protection may cover your liability—see Section 11 (Protection for Sellers) below.

    If a buyer files a Significantly Not as Described (SNAD) Claim for an item they purchased from you, you will generally be required to accept the item back and refund the buyer the full purchase price plus original shipping costs. You will not receive a refund of your PayPal fees. Further, if you lose a SNAD Claim because we, in our sole discretion, reasonably believe the item you sold is counterfeit, you will be required to provide a full refund to the buyer and you will not receive the item back (it will be destroyed). PayPal Seller protection will not cover your liability.

180 days to file a claim against a seller??????   Smiley Mad

Message 1 of 28
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27 REPLIES 27

New PayPal policy - November

I've carefully read the new Paypal things and this just away to chase us small seller of the site. eBay is no longer just a ventue it is a dictatorship

run by a crime boss JD which when has ruined eBay he will move on to another ruin. So when my items end this time I will move them to another site

that has no dictator ship. eBay has not done any thing for me in the five or six months. I just pay Pay pay. So bye eBay and I hope thousands of sellers

follow me.

Beargulchbooks
Message 2 of 28
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New PayPal policy - November

 

Two practical concerns with INR and SNAD claims made toward the end of the 180-day period:

 

-- Listings will have expired on eBay, and sellers will be unable to cite their original descriptions/photos for disputed items.

 

-- Any tracking info, both delivery scans and viewable signature confirmation, is likely to have expired at usps.com.

Message 3 of 28
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New PayPal policy - November

Destroying an item somebody claims is counterfeit has been a problem in the past, and I think it will be in he future even worse. Experts can have disgreement over what is authentic or not. Can you imagine a priceless book being destoyed because somebody says its a fake?

And the 180 days! On a place like Ebay that is ridiculous.

Message 4 of 28
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New PayPal policy - November

 

Who is responsible for destroying an item? The buyer? The same buyer who might be lying about authenticity to get a free item?

 

And how does PP, in its "sole discretion," determine authenticity without ever handling an item?

Message 5 of 28
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New PayPal policy - November

Ok.....that's it.......game over. If that goes into effect, Ebay will lose me. Perhaps that's not much to them but I care not. I'd rather sell on other venues anyway. They clip you on item, listing, PayPal and shipping.

 

Ebay......Why don't you just wait in a dark alley for me with a blackjack. You can have my daily bread all at once.  (sorry...a little angry here)

Message 6 of 28
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New PayPal policy - November

I am rather new to Ebay but not to selling online. Is this rule for everyone on any site that uses Paypal or just Ebay? Seems not quite fair to me. So a buyer can wear a dress 5 times, it gets torn and then file a SNAD?

Message 7 of 28
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New PayPal policy - November

Of course......if he says he got it torn (just didn't open the package right away because they were gone on vacation)...you get your dress back torn and you get to refund. Happy Days Are here Again!

Message 8 of 28
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New PayPal policy - November

All I know is I can't remember details of a sale from 6 months ago, unless problems are brought to my attention promptly
Message 9 of 28
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New PayPal policy - November

Questons: Does this apply to eBay sales, or sales through PayPal Stores, only? does it apply to PayPal mobile sales --for example if I use mobile payments at a flea market or a garage sale, does it apply there as well? If I go to an auction and use my PayPal debit card, can I get full reimbursement for items sold as is where is by filing a complaint through PayPal? 

Keep in mind that eBay has required a 30 day return period extension to 90 days (I think maybe only 60) for the holiday period to allow buyers who shop over the season for holiday gifting can be assured that if the item is not suitable it can be returned. 

Amazon has the same 90 day policy in force all year long. Never had an issue that wasn't brought up promptly.

The thing is this:

eBay owns PayPal, true: but eBay has a buyer protection policy and a seller protection policy and so does PayPal because PayPal is also a venue. 

I have no idea if anybody ever sells anything through a PayPal store, but they've been around for a decade or so which suggests that they are a successful enough venue to warrant attempting to increase commerce with this nonsense.

Until EBAY says that PayPal's protection warranty extends to EBAY purchases, I'd sit tight.


 

__________________________________________________________
" "Do not read too much Lionel Fanthorpe at one go, your brains will turn to guacamole and drip out of your ears."
~~~~~~~~~~~Neil Gaiman
Message 10 of 28
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New PayPal policy - November

I mean it's like this:

I buy postage for all my sales on PayPal.

According to this new policy, I can file an item not received case for every label paid for 91-180 days after shipping my sales and get a full refund for shipping.

__________________________________________________________
" "Do not read too much Lionel Fanthorpe at one go, your brains will turn to guacamole and drip out of your ears."
~~~~~~~~~~~Neil Gaiman
Message 11 of 28
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New PayPal policy - November

I just heard that eBay is going to be spinning off PayPall/BillmeLater into a separate publicly held business next year (NPR News).

The decision was made because the two companies seem to be conflicting more and more--

the move by PayPal to increase consumer protections toward the same longevity that credit card charge backs are possible certainly makes sense for a bank that wants to compete with other major banks for consumer trade

and it separates the eBay buyer/seller transaction 

 

eBay is going to have to open up its allowed payments to other competing organizations, I think

__________________________________________________________
" "Do not read too much Lionel Fanthorpe at one go, your brains will turn to guacamole and drip out of your ears."
~~~~~~~~~~~Neil Gaiman
Message 12 of 28
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New PayPal policy - November

 

Also, a change coming at the top of eBay for the first time in serveral years:

 

http://www.thestar.com/business/2014/09/30/ebay_to_split_paypal_business_off_into_separate_company.h...

 

For now, I would say don't listen to anyone who professes to know what it means for sellers.

 

Message 13 of 28
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New PayPal policy - November

According to NPR, the business motivations are primarily coming from stock holders who want PayPal to be able to serve interests that compete with eBay.

Makes sense from that point of view.

The converse would be that eBay no longer needs to protect PayPal's monopoly here.

The difference in sales last year was about 1.1 billion U$D, PayPal grew 6% or so more than eBay.

Why would eBay want to eliminate checks and money orders going forward if they don't benefit from the  vigorish at PayPal? I guess it will depends on how much profit PayPal will return to eBay as a stock holder.

__________________________________________________________
" "Do not read too much Lionel Fanthorpe at one go, your brains will turn to guacamole and drip out of your ears."
~~~~~~~~~~~Neil Gaiman
Message 14 of 28
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