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Community Member
Posts: 17
Registered: ‎02-13-2011

Why doesn't eBay care about shill bidding? And I have proof!

I have turned a shill bidder in several times. They have manipulated an item I won, an item another person I know bid on and then gave them a second-chance offer when their other user name won it for the second time and had already left feedback.


 


There was also an item that had been won by their second user name THREE TIMES before it was finally turned around and sold to someone else. And if you look up their second user name and look at their bidding activity, 98% of their bidding activity is on that one seller.


 


I have called eBay two times about them and been harassed by them and now they are harassing me through mail fraud since they have my mailing address through eBay. They decided to sign me up for magazines and have them bill me later through my address! I'm about ready to go to the police with this now since eBay won't do squat!

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dunnohowtowin
Community Member
Posts: 4,880
Registered: ‎03-10-2007

Re: Why doesn't eBay care about shill bidding? And I have proof!

in reply to jordan369

Why would anyone be harassing you?  Did you harass them first with accusations of shill bidding?


 


You can only get contact information on someone you've been in a transaction with.  Were you in a transaction with someone you accused of shilling? 



Real people believe that if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Engineers believe that if it ain't broke, it doesn't have enough features.

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Community Member
Posts: 17
Registered: ‎02-13-2011

Re: Why doesn't eBay care about shill bidding? And I have proof!

in reply to jordan369

No, I didn't harass them first with shill bidding. It's actually a very long story. I was in a transaction with them. I bought an item from them and when it arrived, I found out they overcharged me by $20. When I asked the about it (according to the shipping label, it cost a little over $5 to ship, and they charged me $25), they said they wanted the extra money to buy a swingset. I told them it was against eBay's rules to charge the extra shipping and asked if we could work out a solution. She said at first no and then finally agreed to a partial refund when she got home because she was driving. Well, that ended up being a lie. She never intended to refund me.


 


Then she started harassing me with her second account. I am an eBay seller as well as a buyer. So she bid on one of my auctions and then wanted to retract her bid, claiming the item looked unclean and ugly and I looked like a terrible seller who robs from the poor and sells for a higher price and then she just kept sending me harassing messages, even though I canceled her bid and hadn't even replied. At this point I hadn't even known she was a shill bidder, but then I looked at this second accounts bid history and it was tied to the seller I had just been dealing with. She had bought many many things from her and was from the same state, so I knew something was fishy!


 


So I and a bunch other people started doing some investigating and looking into bidding history and the harasser had been winning items but then these items were reappearing on the other sellers for sale site. Fishy. Yes. And then another person came forward with another story that caught my attention and it has confirmed everything I've already known about this seller.

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Community Member
Posts: 17
Registered: ‎02-13-2011

Re: Why doesn't eBay care about shill bidding? And I have proof!

in reply to jordan369

I don't think she even knows I know she's a shiller. But I have talked to eBay twice about her harassment and her shilling.

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Community Member
Posts: 3,821
Registered: ‎04-17-2007

Re: Why doesn't eBay care about shill bidding? And I have proof!

in reply to jordan369


No, I didn't harass them first with shill bidding. It's actually a very long story. I was in a transaction with them. I bought an item from them and when it arrived, I found out they overcharged me by $20. When I asked the about it (according to the shipping label, it cost a little over $5 to ship, and they charged me $25), they said they wanted the extra money to buy a swingset. I told them it was against eBay's rules to charge the extra shipping and asked if we could work out a solution. She said at first no and then finally agreed to a partial refund when she got home because she was driving. Well, that ended up being a lie. She never intended to refund me.



 


Didn't you agree to the $25 shipping charge when you bid and won? You weren't overcharged and the seller does not need to refund you at all.


 


Now turn this around. Say the seller charged you $5 for shipping and the shipping label shows it cost $20 to ship. Would you then pay your seller the additional $15? Or would you hold your seller to the shipping stated in the auction?


 

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Community Member
Posts: 17
Registered: ‎02-13-2011

Re: Why doesn't eBay care about shill bidding? And I have proof!

in reply to jordan369

Oh, there's more to the story. Do you really want to defend a scammer? I contacted eBay and they sided with me. At this point I hadn't even left feedback. And I still didn't know she was a shill bidder at this point.


 


So then she left me false positive feedback saying that I had left her negative feedback and that I was a bad buyer and that I had scammed her. So in response I went ahead and left her negative feedback explaining the overcharging shipping and the harassment.


 


I have a really, really long thread about it on a separate website with the entire story where people are urging me to go to the feds to charge her with mail fraud. If anyone is interested, I will direct you there. But beware, it is a LONG read, as this thing started in May and is still going on.

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dunnohowtowin
Community Member
Posts: 4,880
Registered: ‎03-10-2007

Re: Why doesn't eBay care about shill bidding? And I have proof!

in reply to jordan369

You agreed to the terms in the listing.  If you felt it was too much, you shouldn't have bought it.


 


So, after the initial battle, you decide to stalk the seller and try and prove they are shilling.  Most people would have let it go and never even looked at that seller's listings again.  I sense another War of the Roses here.



Real people believe that if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Engineers believe that if it ain't broke, it doesn't have enough features.

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Community Member
Posts: 3,821
Registered: ‎04-17-2007

Re: Why doesn't eBay care about shill bidding? And I have proof!

in reply to jordan369


Oh, there's more to the story. Do you really want to defend a scammer? I contacted eBay and they sided with me. At this point I hadn't even left feedback. And I still didn't know she was a shill bidder at this point.


 


So then she left me false positive feedback saying that I had left her negative feedback and that I was a bad buyer and that I had scammed her. So in response I went ahead and left her negative feedback explaining the overcharging shipping and the harassment.


 



 


I really don't need to know anymore of the story. Fact is you agreed to pay $25 for shipping and then wanted a refund because the actual cost was less.


 


But, which is it? You first say you haven't left feedback. Then you say you left negative.


 


I'm not trying to defend a scammer, but I have no knowledge at this point that's what the seller is. I am, though, definitely NOT defending your opinion that you are owed a refund of the shipping charge you agreed to when you bid.


 


All I can say is that if this has been going on since May, it's about time one of you moved on. This really can't be healthy, holding on to a grudge for so long.

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Community Member
Posts: 3,821
Registered: ‎04-17-2007

Re: Why doesn't eBay care about shill bidding? And I have proof!

in reply to jordan369

Oh, and if you're being urged to go to the Feds, why not just do it and end this thing?

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blue_eyes_james
Community Member
Posts: 7,343
Registered: ‎09-06-2008

Re: Why doesn't eBay care about shill bidding? And I have proof!

in reply to jordan369


When I asked the about it (according to the shipping label, it cost a little over $5 to ship, and they charged me $25), they said they wanted the extra money to buy a swingset. 



That is just wrong. They can only overcharge if they're going to buy jelly donuts!



"Laugh and you'll live long. Laugh at yourself and you'll live longer!"
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Community Member
Posts: 17
Registered: ‎02-13-2011

Re: Why doesn't eBay care about shill bidding? And I have proof!

in reply to jordan369

Exactly. But this thing didn't turn out to be about the shipping, guys. That's the point. This thing became about the harassment because she wouldn't stop. I never did get any money back for the shipping, eBay just gave her a warning about not overcharging for the wrong reason.


 


Someone else pointed out to me about the second account which was harassing me that they were tied to the first account and we noticed she had been shill bidding and scamming a lot of people, including me.


 


I called up eBay again and pointed this out to them. They said yes, it appeared this person was shill bidding, but that they were a top seller. I pointed out to this person that the only reason they were a top seller is because their second account was giving them good feedback all the time when their second account would shill bid, win the auction and then it would be relisted again. Some of those auctions had been relisted several times after they had been won by the second account and the second account had given feedback.


 


Then someone else told me they had bid on one of those auctions, lost to the shill bidder and then the auction had been relisted again and they lost again and then that bidder had been offered a second chance offer and she had thought that was really strange.


 


And as far as going to the feds, I'm awaiting the final proof to come back first. Since it's mail fraud, I'm awaiting a slip in the mail. It may be a couple weeks, since it needs to be located, but if it says the location I'm expecting it to say, we've nailed her!

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Community Member
Posts: 1
Registered: ‎03-15-2011

Re: Why doesn't eBay care about shill bidding? And I have proof!

in reply to jordan369

I agree...it's not about the shipping cost (although that is beyond crazy to charge so much extra) But the fact is  They are Shill bidding which IS AGAISNT eBay RULES!!  Now she is using your address information and having things shipped to you against your permission is SO Illegal! Why is everyone focusing one the stupid shipping cost?! The point is:


1) Shill Bidding!


2) Mail Fraud


 


 


Wake up people and don't focus on something that is unimportant! Would you like some crazy person having your actually mailing address to your house and using that information to send you things and You pay for that you didn't even want?!

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Community Member
Posts: 1
Registered: ‎06-26-2013

Re: Why doesn't eBay care about shill bidding? And I have proof!

in reply to jordan369

That is just awful.  Regardless of the shipping thing, it's ridiculous that eBay won't do anything about the shill bidding and it's CRIMINAL that this person is harassing you now through the mail.

I hope you get the proof you need to go to the police soon.  Good luck with eBay, too.

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fshardy
Community Member
Posts: 4,709
Registered: ‎07-09-2003

Re: Why doesn't eBay care about shill bidding? And I have proof!

in reply to jordan369

eBay can't do anything about things which happen outside of eBay.  They have no control over that.


 


I hadn't realised that the "My Little Pony" world was so intense and so cut-throat.  Unless proof positive is being presented, in many cases eBay tends to ignore one seller reporting another.  That tends to look like someone out to do in the competition.  I have no idea as to what "proof" you have presented to eBay, but what you've presented here isn't much.  A high percentage of bids with one seller may mean something, or it may be essentially meaningless.  The percentage is computed only for the past 30 days.  Someone who bids on only one item during a 30 day period has a 100% bid history with a single seller.  Multiple bids can skew the percentage.


 


eBay also tends to ignore phone reportage, unless you happen to be somewhat of an insider.  There's a link to report on every listing page, with a menu of various things to report the listing or seller for.


 


If you're having problems with someone outside of eBay, this really isn't the proper venue to report those problems  Neither anyone here can do anything about what happens elsewhere nor can eBay.  Your time, it would seem, would be better spent talking to the police and/or the postal inspectors.


 


As far as what you're claiming goes, no one here can see what you're claiming to see.  But for the sake of argument, suppose that a poster wandered through and happened to note that the two IDs which have posted to this thread with the claims also happen to cross paths on eBay in a number of other ways.  I'm going to believe that's purely coincidence, unless some more substantial proof happens to offer itself or be found.

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Community Member
Posts: 3,821
Registered: ‎04-17-2007

Re: Why doesn't eBay care about shill bidding? And I have proof!

in reply to jordan369


I agree...it's not about the shipping cost (although that is beyond crazy to charge so much extra) But the fact is  They are Shill bidding which IS AGAISNT eBay RULES!!  Now she is using your address information and having things shipped to you against your permission is SO Illegal! Why is everyone focusing one the stupid shipping cost?! The point is:


1) Shill Bidding!


2) Mail Fraud


 


 


Wake up people and don't focus on something that is unimportant! Would you like some crazy person having your actually mailing address to your house and using that information to send you things and You pay for that you didn't even want?!



 


Did you not say that the  harassment started after you asked for a refund on the shipping? Shipping to which you originally agreed to by bidding on the item?


 


If eBay is doing nothing to stop this seller, why not go to the Feds as you've been advised? Why continue to drag this thing out?

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Community Member
Posts: 17
Registered: ‎02-13-2011

Re: Why doesn't eBay care about shill bidding? And I have proof!

in reply to jordan369

I have hit the report button several times on her auctions for the shill bidding as have many others. If I could direct you to the auctions and mention the two names you'd see the shill bidding is quite obvious yourself. It's a no-brainer. Even the people I talked to on the phone agreed.

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Community Member
Posts: 17
Registered: ‎02-13-2011

Re: Why doesn't eBay care about shill bidding? And I have proof!

in reply to jordan369

As I've told you before, I am waiting on something to come back before I can proceed to law enforcement. I want to make my case airtight. And if it doesn't come back, I'll have to request one from somewhere else, I have several to choose from.

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blue_eyes_james
Community Member
Posts: 7,343
Registered: ‎09-06-2008

Re: Why doesn't eBay care about shill bidding? And I have proof!

in reply to jordan369

Over time we've seen lots of legitimate shiller claims mentioned on the boards, and with obvious proof, and very often we've seen the seller punished, go NARU, etc. So eBay DOES do something about it.


 


They can't do anything about your shipping charge complaint, there's no dispute for that. They will investigate the shilling reports. And as mentioned above you should look to other avenues to report the personal civil issues and mail fraud you're having.


 




"Laugh and you'll live long. Laugh at yourself and you'll live longer!"
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littleoddsends
Community Member
Posts: 1,040
Registered: ‎05-17-2013

Re: Why doesn't eBay care about shill bidding? And I have proof!

in reply to jordan369

OP:  This is your subconcience speaking, please step away from your keyboard, place your hands on the doorknob and go outside.  Do NOT go near your keyboard until you have had fun, relieved your stress and forgotten all about this person. 


 


Seriously OP, your wasting time on someone who may or may not be shill bidding.  Let me give you an example that flips your idea:


 


My brother in law and I live in the same town, we both sell on ebay, for the most part very different items.  He does a lot of electronics, music, barbies and so on.  I do a mix of vintage items, photography, collectibles and such.


 


On 2 occasions he's had things I wanted, 1 was a vintage camera w/accessories and another was some Harley Davidson Motorcycles.  So I bid on both and won them.  Does that make me a shill bidder?  Yes we know each other, yes there are times we are at each others' homes and check/process our ebay accounts and blah blah blah.  Someone could claim it, but the hard part of this to call me a shill bidder on his items is I was the only bidder on both of those items.  Hmmm... Who did I shill bid against?  Myself?


 


My point is, unless you are the individual or you've installed spy equipment in their home to video them doing what your accusing them of, then guess what:  You can't say you have proof.  Instead you have "SUSPICION" and that is it. 


 


The $25 shipping/handling cost in regards to a $5 postage cost is not proof of anything.  Yes, it is a tad on the high side but you agreed to it BEFORE you bid and BEFORE you paid so you can't cry over it now. 


 


Again I'm into vintage photography.  I came across an old 1950's projector that was basically good for parts and I really wanted it.  The guy had opening bid at $20 which looked good to me, but he had the shipping at $61.00.  Now I know the cost of postage from SF to Ohio is $18.00 on this item, $22.00 if he really pushes it, but that is it.  I chose not to pay $81.00 total for a parts projector that sells in mint condition with all the toys for $175-200.  I made this decision by NOT bidding on the item.


 


As far as these magazines go, you personally don't have the proof it's this individual doing it to you, what you have is a suspicion.  It would take law enforcement with warrants to back track where they came from if they even can. 


 


Now please stop looking for conspiracies and the world being against you.  Instead, grab a My Little Pony and listen to what it says about all the good people and things in the world. 

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ausgeoff1946
Community Member
Posts: 341
Registered: ‎12-11-2011

Storm, meet teacup...

in reply to jordan369

I'm an Aussie, and we're all a bit laid back, so forgive me if I have this wrong.....  :-)


 


Someone is actually going to the police to lodge a complaint of fraud over a toy worth ten bucks?


 


Seriously?

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