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Stop Sniping!

chris.nall25
Enthusiast
I just recently started my eBay business and along with all the research I've been doing about buyer trends etc... I've noticed this idea of sniping and sniping services essentially nulling the point of an auction. Can we suggest eBay institute a system change if so where do we do that? My suggestion would be any bid placed within the last minute automatically extends the auction by 1 minute. This would allow the person willing to pay the most actually won the auction. Can you imagine going to a live auction where the auctioneer held a stop watch and whoever blurted out the loudest in the last 2 seconds won? No of course not, why should eBay be any different. eBay and sellers would make more money, The buyer who wants it the most gets it. Seems like a win win to me. What are your thoughts?
Message 1 of 265
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264 REPLIES 264

Stop Sniping!

I don't particularly care (as a seller) how an auction is won,
as long as the transaction is successful.
As a buyer, yeah, sniping does get annoying.
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Message 2 of 265
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Stop Sniping!

I've noticed this idea of sniping and sniping services essentially nulling the point of an auction.

Hardly. Sniping simply makes it a "sealed bid" auction, instead of the "going, going, gone" auction you're probably most familiar with. It doesn't null anything. High bid still wins, and that's the "point" of an auction.

Can we suggest eBay institute a system change if so where do we do that? My suggestion would be any bid placed within the last minute automatically extends the auction by 1 minute.

Congratulations on being the 10,000th person to suggest this. If eBay thought it would raise selling prices, they'd have done it in a heartbeat, because higher prices mean more fees for them. But they haven't.

This would allow the person willing to pay the most actually won the auction.

eBay's proxy bidding system already guarantees that the person willing to pay the most will win, as long as they don't nickel and dime their bid. Have you bothered to read and understand how proxy bidding works? I doubt it. If you did, I don't think you'd be suggesting this.

Can you imagine going to a live auction where the auctioneer held a stop watch and whoever blurted out the loudest in the last 2 seconds won? No of course not, why should eBay be any different.

Oh, let's see, off the top of my head:

1) In a live auction, the item can be bid on for less than a minute. On eBay, it's available for days. People have plenty of time to decide how much they're willing to pay.

2) In a live auction, everybody is sitting right in front of the auctioneer at the end of the auction. On eBay, I can win an auction even when I'm asleep if I've placed my proxy bid. I won't be at my computer in the middle of the night, or when I'm at work, or when I'm in the car, so the winning bid might be lower instead of higher. Is that what you want?

You obviously don't understand proxy bidding. Until you do, your research into "buyer trends" won't get you very far on eBay.

Theory: you understand why it should work but it doesn't
Practice: it works but you have no idea how

Message 3 of 265
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Stop Sniping!

chris.nall25
Enthusiast
Dr_StrangleLove, You obviously put in a lot of thought in your response and I appreciate that however I dont appreciate your rhetorical tone but thats okay I'll respond to each of your statements and I'll try to be a gentlemen as oppose to a jerk.

"Hardly. Sniping simply makes it a "sealed bid" auction, instead of the "going, going, gone" auction you're probably most familiar with. It doesn't null anything. High bid still wins, and that's the "point" of an auction"

High bidder only wins who has put in a proxy bid which people almost never put in the most they are actually willing to pay especially in the last few seconds. I'll explain, most buyers make emotional purchases auctions exacerbate these emotions and people will almost always bid more in the heat of the moment than they will when placing a proxy bid, so from this point of view sniping (especially with sniping services) nulls that experience resulting in lower sale prices.

"Congratulations on being the 10,000th person to suggest this. If eBay thought it would raise selling prices, they'd have done it in a heartbeat, because higher prices mean more fees for them. But they haven't"

As I stated I just started my business and I was making a suggestion and seeking thoughts. I wasnt claiming to have some brilliant original idea. ebay continually makes changes, I would assume at least some of these changes are made due to buyer and seller input.

"eBay's proxy bidding system already guarantees that the person willing to pay the most will win, as long as they don't nickel and dime their bid. Have you bothered to read and understand how proxy bidding works? I doubt it. If you did, I don't think you'd be suggesting this.["/i]

See my previous comment on proxy bidding. And yes I have read and understand how proxy bidding works.

"1) In a live auction, the item can be bid on for less than a minute. On eBay, it's available for days. People have plenty of time to decide how much they're willing to pay."

Live auctions often produce a list of the items up for auction and people have ample time to decide what they are willing to pay however, as previously stated people will often bid more from something in the heat of the moment than they previously thought hence the reason for extending the auction with each bid during a live auction.

"2) In a live auction, everybody is sitting right in front of the auctioneer at the end of the auction. On eBay, I can win an auction even when I'm asleep if I've placed my proxy bid. I won't be at my computer in the middle of the night, or when I'm at work, or when I'm in the car, so the winning bid might be lower instead of higher. Is that what you want?"

I never suggested getting rid of proxy bids, I suggested extending auction times with bids placed in the final moments of the auction. This would have no effect on proxy bids or even sniping services it would simply give bidders sitting at their computers placing bids the opportunity to place another bid. What would the harm in this be and how would that result in lower prices?

"You obviously don't understand proxy bidding. Until you do, your research into "buyer trends" won't get you very far on eBay"

No sir, you obviously dont understand what "sniping" is or how buyers emotions work during an auction. Again I never took a stance against proxy bidding as I think thats a great idea. I've taken a stance against SNIPING and SNIPING SERVICES. Which make it impossible for people to raise their bid price fast enough. If you do understand what sniping is why would you be against extending auction times by 1minute with bids placed within the last minute?
Message 4 of 265
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Stop Sniping!

High bidder only wins who has put in a proxy bid which people almost never put in the most they are actually willing to pay especially in the last few seconds.

Almost never? Really? A large majority of the people I bid against don't seem to have a problem placing a proxy bid for their maximum amount. They've quickly learned that doing so is the best strategy for this auction format. And this auction format fits a global, 24/7 market much better than a live auction format would.

As I stated I just started my business and I was making a suggestion and seeking thoughts. I wasnt claiming to have some brilliant original idea. ebay continually makes changes, I would assume at least some of these changes are made due to buyer and seller input.

eBay is in a fight for its corporate life, and (as stated earlier) anything that would result in higher prices would probably be adopted instantly. eBay has observed the failures and poor buyer experiences of other sites that use extensions, and decided that there would be no gain from using them.

I never suggested getting rid of proxy bids, I suggested extending auction times with bids placed in the final moments of the auction. This would have no effect on proxy bids or even sniping services it would simply give bidders sitting at their computers placing bids the opportunity to place another bid. What would the harm in this be and how would that result in lower prices?

It would take away the incentive for anyone to place a proxy bid. Why would you do so if it meant that someone (maybe a "sport" bidder, or even an accomplice of the seller) could nibble away at it to their heart's content? You'd be driving away the very people who place the highest bids, and you'd end up with lower prices, not higher ones.

No sir, you obviously dont understand what "sniping" is or how buyers emotions work during an auction.

Sniping: the placement of a single maximum proxy bid during the last seconds of an auction by someone who has not bid earlier.

And those "buyers emotions" are what cause a lot of people to have "buyer's remorse" and renege on their end of the contract. Why would you want to encourage that?

IMO, most eBay members understand proxy bidding and know they should bid their max. If you want to dumb down the site in favor of the minority who don't get it, you can count on losing many of those max bidders.

Theory: you understand why it should work but it doesn't
Practice: it works but you have no idea how

Message 5 of 265
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Stop Sniping!

> I just recently started my eBay business and along with all the research I've been doing about buyer trends etc... I've noticed this idea of sniping and sniping services essentially nulling the point of an auction. How does sniping null the point of the auction? There are many points to bidding at an auction and one point is to get a bargin. The lower the price by sniping is the best bargin. Can we suggest eBay institute a system change if so where do we do that? My suggestion would be any bid placed within the last minute automatically extends the auction by 1 minute. This would allow the person willing to pay the most actually won the auction. Can you imagine going to a live auction where the auctioneer held a stop watch and whoever blurted out the loudest in the last 2 seconds won? No of course not, why should eBay be any different. eBay and sellers would make more money, The buyer who wants it the most gets it. If I placed the highest bid by sniping & won it doesn't that mean I wanted it the most? Seems like a win win to me. What are your thoughts?

In your retort to the Dr. you brought out another reason, "you obviously dont understand what "sniping" is or how buyers emotions work during an auction." Here your dead wrong. As a sniper myself I totally understand that sniping eliminates my oponent from placing an emotional bid there by allowing me to get the best bargin in the auction. As I stated earlier that's why a buyer like myself places snipes on an item. I want the item at the lowest price. Why else would I go to an auction but not to pay the lowest price under the retail price that's at a store?




The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.
Message 6 of 265
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Stop Sniping!

chris.nall25
Enthusiast
"How does sniping null the point of the auction? There are many points to bidding at an auction and one point is to get a bargin. The lower the price by sniping is the best bargin"

Okay you are right it doesnt Null the point of an auction completely but it also doesnt allow the market to dictate the price of an item that was my point in saying it nulls the point of an auction.

"In your retort to the Dr. you brought out another reason, "you obviously dont understand what "sniping" is or how buyers emotions work during an auction." Here your dead wrong. As a sniper myself I totally understand that sniping eliminates my oponent from placing an emotional bid there by allowing me to get the best bargin in the auction. As I stated earlier that's why a buyer like myself places snipes on an item. I want the item at the lowest price. Why else would I go to an auction but not to pay the lowest price under the retail price that's at a store?"

I'm not dead wrong, my retort was regarding proxy bidding Dr. kept bringing up proxy bidding in with sniping they are two completely different things am I wrong?. You've proved my point for me. The winning bidder should be the person willing to pay the most if another bidder cant place a bid fast enough and looses the item you purchased was purchased at an artifically low price not because thats what the market dictates but because your sniping software bids in the last 2 seconds. Of course you want the best price we all do, but many items would have sold for more because that is what the market would've dictated. If an item would sell for more if people had the chance to bid then that is in my opinion how it should be.

It is apparent I'm outnumbered in this debate. And we are just going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I have a problem with items being sold at artifically low prices because people are bidding using sniping software, I think the market should dictate the price of an item not peoples ability to place a bid faster than the next guy.
Message 7 of 265
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Stop Sniping!

I'm not dead wrong, my retort was regarding proxy bidding Dr. kept bringing up proxy bidding in with sniping they are two completely different things am I wrong?

Yes, you are wrong. Sniping is proxy bidding, with the added conditions that the bid is done in the last few seconds by someone who hasn't bid before (I gave you the definition in reply #4). So here you are, trying to stop sniping when you don't even understand what it is.

You've proved my point for me. The winning bidder should be the person willing to pay the most if another bidder cant place a bid fast enough and looses the item you purchased was purchased at an artifically low price not because thats what the market dictates but because your sniping software bids in the last 2 seconds...

I think the market should dictate the price of an item not peoples ability to place a bid faster than the next guy.


Until you understand that eBay's proxy bidding system renders any speed advantage useless, you won't understand eBay. I can bid on the first day of the auction and beat any sniper, as long as I've place a proxy bid that's higher than theirs.

Theory: you understand why it should work but it doesn't
Practice: it works but you have no idea how

Message 8 of 265
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Stop Sniping!

I have used EZ Snipe. But not too often (I still have 4 snipes left outta the 10 I started with).

Even in the USA, there are four time zones. Some bidders have a "Life" and cannot monitor the auction at the end. In the reality of the auction format, it is best to bid at the end to obtain the best deal. If I bid $500 at the beginning of an auction it is quite likely that someone will outbid by $10 (or whatever) before it is over. Even with a 'Sniper' if someone's maximum bid is more than my snipe, they will still win the auction.

My first eBay purchase was a guitar that I got into a bidding war with someone (who coulda been a shill)*. I paid more that I should have for the guitar, that I later sold for much less than I paid for it. This is good for the seller but bad for the bidder. And we want an even playing field, don't we?
And we don't want to encourage 'bidding addicts' either, do we?

If you don't like snipe programs, list your item at a fixed price.

Next you will want to get rid of 'Activa' and the other hosting programs.

*[Sniping programs negate 'Shill Bidders']
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Message 9 of 265
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Stop Sniping!

tbil60
Enthusiast
Sniping became a favorite past time. And we all have our own bragging rights My best snipe was 2 seconds left on the clock.

Anyway, it's been around for quite a while and Ebay won't change it.

As a seller, my best bids come in the last 5 - 10 minutes of the auction. If people want to snipe my items, why should I complain? It's a win / win situation for both the seller as well as the buyer. They get their item and I normally get a decent sale price on the item.
Message 10 of 265
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Stop Sniping!

sherrill12
Enthusiast
Seems that what you are calling "sniping" is the basic fun in any bidding process. The key is to wait until the final few seconds of the auction and bid the highest bid you are willing to pay. Either you win or you don't, but if you put your highest bid in before closing, you have your fair chance. What you seem to want is additional opportunities to keep the auction going by upping the last bid placed until no one wants to bid again. I don't have any problem with what you call sniping even though I have lost a few items because I do not have the fastest computer speed and I was trying to do the one-up bidding that you seem to favor and essentially ran out of time.
Message 11 of 265
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Stop Sniping!

tbil60
Enthusiast
Normally it's the bidders who complain about sniping. I've noticed that most sellers don't have a problem with it cause they can get a higher amount for their items. Regardless, there's no violation for doing it, and never will be.
Years ago there were a couple of auction sites that practiced the on going auction style but they eventually went out of business. I tried one a couple of times and didn't find it very enjoyable. There's a major difference when you're sitting in an auction house waiting for the going, going, gone announcement and sitting at your computer, watching another 5 minutes added to an auction cause someone just placed another bid 30 seconds before it was suppose to end.
Message 12 of 265
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Stop Sniping!

tbil60
Enthusiast
"eBay and sellers would make more money"

Why would ANYBODY want Ebay to make more money???

Just asking....
Message 13 of 265
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Stop Sniping!

loveday789
Enthusiast
Are you complaining because you got beat. There wil always be last minute bidders, no one can control that and why should Ebay care? A bid is a bid.
Message 14 of 265
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Stop Sniping!

greatvibe
Enthusiast
OP,

You could always put no bidding allowed within the last minute in your TOS. Then if someone does, you could not sell it to him because he was an unwelcome bidder ]:)

<>How do you bury an Evo?
With a Shovel
Message 15 of 265
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